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I am one of the many bowlers that have brought non bowling shoes and have had them re soled. I wear sketchers and they have a flat “cork” based sole.
As I am an umpire I am well aware of the rules that we are to abide by, in saying that I did follow the instructions on how to have them “approved” by bowls wa.
I emailed through photos in February and again in March this year.
I have not received any response back advising me if they get the tick of approval or not.
I am disappointed that I’ve had no response, considering that they are trying to crack down on non approved shoes it’s a bit of an oversight.
I wonder if anyone else is in the same boat as me??
Kind Regards Brooke Chaney
It sounds like you are trying to do the right thing, I'm sure it has just slipped through the cracks. Hopefully you'll hear from someone very soon about them and get them approved or denied, but at least a response will be forthcoming.
Bowlers beware.
If any bowlers are considering buying bowls or equipment online, I strongly recommend they steer clear of an online bowls store called The Bowlers Barn (www.bowlersbarn.com.au). I ordered custom Taylor bowls and paid for them. After 16 weeks, no bowls, no response to emails and no answers on the contact phone numbers given on their website. I am not the first person to be caught out. Others have been scammed and posted their experiences online.
I hope you will post this message in the hope that no other WA bowler gets scammed.
Regards Ray Halse
Thanks Ray, that doesn't sound good and let's hope it is just a logistical issue and you get yopur bowls soon. There have been similar horror stories on Facebook, so fair to say WA bowlers, buy local!
In the hindsight of weather conditions for the last Pennant season, the heat rule is not sustainable probably 80% of current lawn bowlers are over 65 and though all publicity is aimed at younger bowlers if clubs lose a subsrantial number of these players they will not be able to survive. At present we alter conditions of play at 38deg which is measured in a box in the shade with air ports or at least in the shade .we do not play in these conditions, we play in the sunlight,where as grass greens have a cooling effect sythetic greens are plastic and generate heat so that the probable temperature when the box says 38 is probablably 43-45 on the green, a metal roof will generate temperatures of high 50s .
We have alternatives change the 39deg to 36 for 2nd Div down and have 1st Div where most players are younger accept the risk. if they want, or change the pennant season away from the height of the summer months. George Beacroft
As Bowls WA receives submissions from each club on the future of metropolitan open gender pennant discussion paper, I hope that they don’t remove current restrictions in place in the Men’s and Women’s Mid week pennants. Furthermore I feel that the Women’s Saturday competition should also be left women only.
From my reading into the implementation of open gender pennants in Melbourne, there are more concerns rather than positive outcomes coming from the removal of women only pennant bowls. As one male bowler commented on the Bowls Talk Victoria Facebook page (the post has since been removed) “Unfortunately a side effect of making women’s Mid week pennants open to men, …..more women did not want to play with men and ended up leaving the game. Even more of a concern is that by having an open gender competition across the board, women tend to get pigeon holed as leads or seconds, and then don't get the opportunity to develop their games and skillset to that of a back end player.”
I understand that in 2024/25 Open Gender Saturday Pennants is in Premier Division and below. It will be interesting to see how many women choose to play open gender Saturday pennant, instead of the Women’s Saturday Pennant. Whilst I appreciate a number will do so that they can play in the highest level pennant competition in Perth , of concern to both Bowls WA and clubs is those women choosing to do so as there is not enough women bowlers to field a pennant side on Saturday at their club or because they would prefer to bowl with the men rather than the women.
Be warned, once changes are made there generally is no going back.
Aaron Gale
14th April - Melbourne pennants can't really be used as any form of measure as the entire issue was brought about by a male that entered the state women's singles. His entry was refused, he challenged the decision and won. As a result of one person, discrimination was banned. Mixed pennants in Melbourne has been in place for more than a decade.
In WA DSR funding is linked to unified sports in all aspects, so Bowls WA are between a rock and a hard place. Bowls WA must follow DSR "rules" so that clubs can get funding for synthetic greens and other improvements. This is simply a fact of life that all clubs need to understand.
I agree that women's Saturday pennants should stand alone as the competition was created for working women who could not play Tuesday. This competition was called "Working Women's Pennants".
I also agree on both the men's and women's premier league being stand alone. The best example of how to make this work is Queensland/Brisbane.
Women's Tuesday pennants and men's mid-week pennants have both been in decline for a number of years so a mixed pennant competition does make sense. Failure to act will see both competitions at risk of collapse.
Changes need to be made and measured to see if they work or not. Men's mid-week sets play is a good example of a change that was tried, failed and dumped. These changes do need to happen, but if they don't work then own up and revert back to normal. Further discussion/decisions then need to be explored.
John Hannah
I have just read John Hannah's letter on open gender on the Bowls 360 website and he has made an error in reporting that "a male that entered the state women's singles." wanted to play in a women's competition" in Melbourne.
According to the discussion paper sent out by Bowls WA it states "In 2000, 17-year-old Emily South, from St Kilda Bowling Club, wanted to play bowls at the highest level of competition. This was a Saturday men’s competition.
If you agree with John's statement that "women's Saturday pennants should stand alone as the competition was created for working women who could not play on Tuesday." Shouldn't that same argument also be applied to men's Saturday pennants remain stand alone for the working men who can not play on Thursdays.
Regards Aaron Gale
At our club we have a members price and non-members price for drinks. When ever a bowling player from any club is in uniform they receive reciprocal pricing of our members.
Our different pricing is for people who are not members either at functions, corporate events or guests of members. It seems though now a few clubs don’t have reciprocal rights for fellow bowlers and personally I find it disappointing.
Maybe I have it completely wrong but any bowlers from any club are treated equally at our club.
Would be interested to hear thoughts
Marc Abonnel
Good point Marc, in recent times Clubs who shall remain unnamed, when their own guys have shown a membership card they received a discount, visiting penant players pay full price. I think most have seen their error. At OP all bowler's have access to Happy Hour on Thursday after Midweek Penants and our $5 monthly schooner special 7 Days a week. Can't get better than that. Best way to sort it out, if you are playing away and look like being charged more than the home side, leave. The message will soon get through. I know it's probably only a couple of dollars but it's the principle isn't it? I was at a country carnival not long ago, $6.50 for a stubby from an outside bar run by vollies, a bit greedy really.
Nev Stevens
With the more frequent fixture cancellations due to the heat rule, one solution for the Saturday competition could be to change the starting time to say 8am. That way the game should be finished by around 11 to 11:30 am before it reaches extreme heat conditions. If there is an early maximum temperature, at least the fixture won't be abandoned as it's likely that the minimum number of 56 ends (average of 14 ends per rink) should have already been played. In addition, in line with the governments SunSmart policy, an early start time would get people out of the sun during high UV conditions. If you had to do some work in your garden on a hot summers day, you would most likely start early in the morning to finish before extreme heat conditions set in, not start at 1:30pm like we currently do for our Saturday pennant bowls. This early start time could be trialled for just the hottest month of the year, February, to see how it goes.
I know of many people who won't play pennant bowls because it's played in the heat of the day and when the UV is at its highest. Maybe it's time to be more flexible on when to play our soon to be main pennant open gender competition. More scheduling of Friday night games when it's cooler is another option to beat the heat and UV.
Anonymous
Interestingly I discussed this only the other day about flexibility around start times for hot days. I agree with you, I would love to see an early start, 8am could be a bit early especially if Wanneroo and playing Safety Bay, 9.30 is a bit standard especially for carnivals on a Sunday so i think bowlers would be more agreeable to that. Are you suggesting the whole season starts at 8am? I'm thinking that, like they trialled with Midweeks having a different start time during the hot months then maybe this could be an option for the games in Jan and Feb, but I would be reluctant to start a game at 8am in October that's for sure.
My discussion around flexibility was around the days scheduled for 41, could we change those games last minute to an early or twilight start? It would be too hard to mobilise all grades but maybe 1st division only would see a 4pm start on days scheduled to be 41? I know at my place in Midland it was 39 at 4pm yesterday, so that time would be fine. Easier to mobilise 20 games to start at 4pm, clubs still get some bar trade, those not playing can come and watch and support.
Early starts. Please Remember most clubs relies on Volunteers Saturday Morning, especially the Good ones, 2 make sure greens are Playable every Saturday, 10ish is feasible. Just saying
Dave Wood
Hi Ken,
I think the time has come for Bowls WA to change the heat rule for pennant games in regard to the use of club thermometers.
Yesterday, in One Blue South, the game between Leeming and Vic Park at Vic Park didn’t even start due to the thermometer showing the temperature was above 40 degrees at 1.15. It didn’t fall below 40 degrees in the required 60 minutes so the game was abandoned.
Later that evening I was surprised to see that every other game in One Blue South was completed as well as every game in Premier North, Premier South and One Blue North (except one) . Surely Vic Park wasn’t the only hot spot in Perth!
I believe that most bowlers would be and are happy to go with the temperature on the official BOM app as this is always referred to when an Umpire is checking the temperature using the club thermometer. Bowls WA use this same source of information when deciding to declare a general abandonment so why not use it to control the heat rule during a game. This information is available to all the team managers at each venue so there is no secrecy about the temperature at any given time.
I think this would even the playing field and allow games to continue without having to (or not) referring to a thermometer in a wooden box.
Regards Jim Newton
President
Leeming Bowling Club
Thanks Jim and would be keen to see the response. The solution is fairly simple in my view. All clubs get an inspection prior to the season commencing and maybe the temerature gauge is one thing that has to be ticked off every year. This might even happen, not sure. I think Bowls WA have a gauge that they use so why not give it to the greens inspectors when they visit each club. Put the gauge where the box is at the club, go off and do the regular greens inspection, and then compare the temp of the Bowls WA gauge to the gauge at the club and they should match or have a small difference. If it's found to be a high discrepancy then they should be given a month to replace.
My only concern with using BOM is that it doesn't show the temperature at the actual venue but rather it's based upon various stations around the city. If we look at yesterday for example which was called off, 41 was listed as the temp in Perth, but in Midland it was 43, and Rockingham was 37. We have wild fluctuations as we are such a big city. BOM does not have a temp for Vic Park per se, nor for any of our clubs specifically, so we have to rely on the gauge at the venue. I think this is fine, but the equipment has to be reliable.
Dear Sir Re Heat Rule
It has come to my attention that the spate of recent hot days which caused abandonments , and some teams to either rise up or drop down the ladder without actually playing, occurred exclusively in summer.
This has apparently led to some opining that games should begin at daybreak following rising, presumably in some instances, at @ 4am.
That Australian Football ( soccer ) is played in Summer and is the only country in the world to employ such absurd thinking and torture for players and spectators alike would the progressive out of Left Field notion of the season running from September to mid December with a few double headers be simply too radical ?
We could even have a Cup Comp ( all teams all divisions drawn from a hat ) in March/April/May.
Thoughts ?
Graham Archell
After having played pennants for some 15 years, I ended up giving it away as the idea of playing in the heat of the day and with UV at its strongest no longer appealed to me. Having spoken to a few other bowlers who had stopped playing pennants, they expressed similar reasons for stopping.
Maybe its time Bowls WA started a structured competition played either on a Saturday or Sunday morning which was completed before midday.
Unknown
In regard to the heat rule. I agree with some of the other letters regarding start times. AS we have seen this year, the forecasted hot days have pretty much eventuated and Bowls WA and clubs seem to have up to 5 days notice of when a 40 day is expected.
Where 40+ days are forecast, could it not be put back to the clubs to arrange an alternative start time with their respective opponents. Whether it be Friday night, Saturday morning, late start etc, there must be many ways in which we could get games played despite Saturday afternoon being 40+. I know there are some people who work Saturday mornings or Friday evenings etc but we are already seeing multiple games around the city played at different times and surely getting the games played is the most important thing (along with getting paying customers into the clubs during games).
I accept it is harder for large clubs to rearrange multiple games and earlier start times would also impact greenkeepers but if we are talking 2-3 times a year then I am sure we could manage it.
From what I have heard, other leagues around the state have managed to jostle fixture time to combat the heat - I appreciate Metro is a very large competition but if all clubs bought into finding a solution I am sure it could be done.
One final thought - Reducing the pennant season from 18 to 14 games (8 team divisions) might also help - it sure would help with managing club events and so many tournaments etc entering the calendar.
I appreciate Bowls WA bringing in a heat policy that focuses on our duty of care to our bowlers- as frustrating as it is, bowling in 40 degree heat is not a safe activity and hope that we can find a way to still play our games while keeping everyone safe
Scott Bermingham
Successive letters have expressed many ways in which the evil enemy *heat* might be vanquished.
Early starts, late starts, less starts, re-arranged starts, alternative day starts etc. What I find difficult to understand is the general agreement that what we must, at all cost, retain are January & February starts.
I play golf regularly August/December and rarely need a scarf, beanie, gloves or thermal underwear.
Graham Archell
Lots of discussions on the heat rule at the moment but I think at some stage we should explore more serious alternatives.
After many years of being involved with bowls there seems to be some reoccurring issues. This is purely a personal idea that I think could solve just about all of them.
These are some of the major issues.
• We play at the hottest time of the year.
• The season is too long (from some players point of view)
• The season is too short (club point of view – bar takings)
• No time for club events and tournaments
• Travelling distance too far
Pennants there are 10 teams in a section and when you play everyone twice you play 18 games plus finals.
The concept is to change our pennant season from being played basically 20 weeks straight into two separate seasons.
This can be achieved in a multitude of ways, but this is a very simple version with lots and lots of variable options.
The first pennant season Summer is played before Christmas. The bowls at club level and state level keep going but pennants then stops till the first of March. This is when Spring pennants starts.
Without discussing formats, lengths and number of teams this will be further down. Just by doing this change we have achieved most of the major points of contention in the bowling world (perceived or reality).
• We then play no pennants during the hottest time of the year.
• State events and club events could be played during this 8-week period.
• People could go away during Christmas and school holidays without letting the team down.
• Clubs don’t lose any length in the season.
The second part of the concept could be instead of the two seasons being joined they are two separate competitions. As an example,
Instead of 10 teams you have 6 this would mean 10 games plus finals. As you can imagine this would create lots of questions and alternatives with 100’s of options.
• 2 pennant seasons would give a person the choice of either playing for both or maybe just one. This solves the problem of the season being too long.
• The finals could be each season, or it could be combined – it could be a mix, season one only has promotion for the top side and demotion for the bottom side.
• Premier league and white could be North and south to reduce travelling – lots of discussion on options for this.
• Travelling distance would be greatly reduced as the zone size basically is halved.
• When AFL Football is played maybe the games could be scheduled in the morning or Friday night or even a Sunday. It would only be a few games but means the season would played at a much better time of year.
At the moment the heat rule overall works very well as a rule. The problem as we are seeing in the future, the weather is only going to get hotter. All of the above is just an idea, and I am sure if we asked 100 people the same question, we would probably have 100 different answers. I think we need a bigger change to solve our problems more than a band aid fix.
Thankyou Simon and all the people involved in making our sport better.
Kind regards
Marc Abonnel
I have my ten cents worth of a suggestion about limiting the impact of heat on the pennant season.
Break the season into three periods
Period 1 - Late October to end of December (Xmas Break) start time normal Period 2 - January and February night games under lights start time negotiable Period 3 - March through to finals back to normal start times
Period 2 could allow clubs to promote the nights and get people in to watch and eat drink and be merry. Potential for a boon in revenue that doesn't always happen on the afternoon start times.
This should eliminate all cancellations during period 2 where teams start their runs for promotion and finals
This would definitely work for Saturday Pennants, more thought may be needed to apply it to mid-weeks
Unknown
There has been a lot of discussion regarding the Heat Rule and this is my take on it. This is my personal view and not necessarily the view of my club, North Perth
It is understandable that there is no play when temperature is over 40 degrees or the forecast is for over 40 degrees. My issue is when the temperature is between 38-40 degrees.
It is mandated that every club has to provide sufficient shade or the venue will not be passed by Bowlswa. In a Pennant game each person bowls 42 bowls in the game which is a very small percentage compared with the time it takes to complete 21 ends. Surely when a person is not bowling and is sitting in the shaded area provided then the temperature is not even close to the temperature being recorded in the box. Commonsense actions such as hydrating and also staying in the shaded area means that the temperature in the box is irrelevant.
I play golf regularly and I have an umbrella on my buggy which reduces the temperature dramatically and allows me to get around the course, comfortably walking approx 8 kilometres in the recent warm weather. Surely sitting on your arse in a shaded area for ¾ of a Pennants game mitigates the case to continue play.
Our recent Midweek game had the 10 minute breaks etc abiding by the new rules. Guess what? The majority of the players sat in the shade outside during this break to “recover”. Only 3 or 4 people went inside to the air conditioning. Out of the 24 players only 2 players did not want to continue. I believe that was more about defending their ladder position at the expense of actually playing the game that we turned up to play.
This next idea is controversial. Clubs in our Eastern suburbs and the Hills are disadvantaged because of the amount of times the temperature is so much higher than the coastal clubs. It is inequitable that coastal clubs get results and other clubs have a draw in the same round. This definitely has a result in determining the finals and I believe it should be 1 out, all out and no points are given to completed games in this scenario
Lets get back to a commonsense approach and then we will get to play more bowls without the confrontations that can occur under the current system.
Terry Prendergast
Question: Should State events be played on the best available greens, either grass or synthetic and should Bowls WA instead of asking clubs to tender for state events pick the best available greens and inform the clubs that the event will be played at the clubs which are chosen?
State events are the blue ribbon events of the bowling calendar, why are players still being subjected to sectional play on sub standard greens. The pairs were played at Doubleview on sub standard greens(extremely slow)(With no disrespect to Doubleview, a great club and obviously putting their hand up to provide greens) and is another travesty by Bowls WA. I know their argument is that clubs are not putting their hand up to host these events and they can only use the clubs who do indicate they are willing to host the events. However, it has to be time as the ruling body for all members to make the decision and inform the selected clubs who clearly have the best greens that their club has been selected for the particular events.
Clearly, The practice of selecting clubs who nominate only, is outdated and more should be done to provide all members with quality green’s befitting a state event. I’m sure most bowlers would agree the greens at Doubleview were not up to state event standards.
Bowls WA have enough paid and volunteer staff to provide an official and umpire at the clubs they select for these events should the selected club not have people available. As the controlling body of the sport, there needs to be more done for the members of all clubs who pay capitation fees.
Finally, there will be a few people who will argue that it is the same for all players whatever the conditions are however, the better the playing surface the better quality of the bowls and enjoyment of the participants.
It should also be time to go back to the practice of having a minimum speed for greens. If clubs can’t provide greens that are up to a standard pace for pennants, then they either forfeit the right for a home game or it is played at a suitable neutral venue. Anonymous
Good letter, I’m going to write an editorial piece later about entry fees and how they should increase and how the increase should be used. As you say one reason is clubs find it hard especially at this time of year to have people run the event and Bowls WA should help out there, but also it’s a financial reason as well, especially if events are run on public holidays. Ladies Pairs held midweek are even harder to attract clubs to host. More clubs might consider hosting the event if these helping measures are implemented.
Not sure I think Bowls WA should tell clubs what to do though, it could come across as being dictatorial despite it being in the best interests of the event.
I am the greenkeeper at doubleview bowling club and just was reading a comment from someone about my greens over the state event. I would like to know where that person that wrote letter plays bowls.
We as greenkeepers in perth do not go out to make greens slow for any event state or pennants And for you to say my greens were below standard is very difficult to take for someone like yourself that writes on computer and have no experience in greenkeepeing just because u bowl u are not a greenkeeper.
Would like to know did this person work Christmas day and boxing day to get ready for the event
This is why most greenkeepers are getting out of the industry for we have bowlers like yourself write stuff like that And you are aloud your comments and so am I when you bag my greens Please understand as greenkeepers we can not make u all happy I could write a book on the comments bowlers say
And I do take my job and work to heart
So why don't u come visit myself or have the balls to put name to your letter . Aaron Faulkner
We should be more appreciative of the work you guys do, sometimes as bowlers we can be critical of surfaces without realising the effort taken to get it playable, and also forgetting that competitors play on the same surface so we tend to blame the green when we should be blaming ourselves after a loss. I think the letter was more about the role Bowls WA rather than the condition of the surface at Doubleview itself.
This was a discussed topic when we did the radio show. I’d be confident it’s the only state championship played in the country at this time of year. A lot of clubs don’t even trade between Xmas and new year’s, and I can’t see too many grass clubs wanting to put their hand up to host the event after the bashing they’ve taken from Xmas functions. Personally, I’ve also always believed that our blue-ribbon events should be played when the conditions and the surfaces are at their best. I realise that the calendar is heavily congested, but I thought the double header for pennants was a success and another one in the second half of the season would free up 2 weekends to knock these over the pairs and singles at the end. Although with 170 teams entering, I can’t see it ever changing.
Plus now that the heat rule is back to 38 its and chance of getting cancelled remember it was only a couple of years ago when it was 40 for the whole event
Regards,
Lord Lee Such
Hello just supporting Aaron. I have been a greenkeeper for ha ha ha to long at many great clubs but would have to say the modern bowler would not have a clue about bringing bowling greens up to a state level. As Aaron says for a state game at Xmas we have to work and i have Xmas day and always boxing day for what ha bowlers to complain. One why clubs and staff meaning barstaff wishes to work. Players will not pay for greens fees for state events but expect world class surfaces. Until bowls wa grow up and players and upstand what greenkeeper do or get from the clubs . Then dont expect what you wish .
Richard Cox
Currently we have a competion that is biased and maybe discriminatory. The "lower divisions" of pennants have been the brunt of B.W.A's decision making. Thursday men's 4th Div is open gender as is women's 3rd Div. Friday night women only. Saturday women only. Saturday men's 2nd Div and below open gender. Saturday men's 1st Div men only. Then there is no open gender events in club championships or state events. Why not? It may surprise some of the decision makers but for a few hours a week men do enjoy the company of other men. We also enjoy the company of women as we do in the off season playing mixed games. My comment on this subject is my own. Steve Dobie. Leeming Bowling Club.
Thanks Steve for your letter and I know this is a common topic of conversation around the place with the Saturday bowlers. I'll save my view for this next year in the off season when we know more around how Saturday is structured next season, but I welcome more letters around this topic in the next 6 months or so. I won't print derisive remarks but well constructed letters both for and against will get equal airtime .
I think a very long overdue discussion needs to be had at all levels of bowls - Bowls Aus & Bowls WA - about foot wear on bowling greens. Being a green keeper for 27 years and bowler of 40 the amount of bowlers using non bowling shoes and the fact at some levels shoes that have been passed because off sponsorship without consideration for grass greens. My club Bassendean has some of the best greens in the whole state but time and again players think it ok to wear what they want on our greens and they are not concerned about damage they are doing, ie after a recent game our green keeper took photos and sent pictures to another green keeper about how much scuffing and damage done to our green. It's time to get serious about this as most bowlers still love playing on grass but their actions is making more and more clubs unable to maintain greens to a hgigh standard
Wayne Neilson
Thanks for the letter Wayne. Yeah it is an issue and not wholly on the bowler. Bowls Australia approve footwear which may be suitable for non-grass surfaces but not suitable for grass greens. About 40% for example of greens in our state are non-grass, so bowlers develop techniques that don't matter on a non-grass surface, such as dragging and twisting of the foot but do affect a grass surface. These techniques are exacerbated by the shoe because they aren't completely flat soled.
Also new bowlers to the game arent really coached about etiquette in the game like I was when I started. So new bowlers develop these drag and twist techniques and they aren't coached out of their game.
I use ASIC shoes as they are the most comfortable show for me but Bowls Australia should enforce a completely flat sole for all bowling shoes. Sadly I don't think this will happen.
The footwear is a issue but I believe this would be solved by all players having to play in flat sole shoes
I wear Nike runners that I've had the sole smoothed out totally at a cost of $70 plus the shoe and these would be the smoothest shoes in the state
ASIC aero and henselite shoes all have more grooves and ridges in them then any of the shoes that people have have resoled at there own expense
I bet if every player wore Nike or any other branded shoe and had them resloled to completey smooth then the greens would be better as a result
So instead of people looking down on people who have had the shoes smoothed out by a private shop I think these people should be applauded for doing it as there shoes are completely smooth unlike the Bowls Australia approved shoes
Anon
Dear Sir Re - Damage by bowls shoes on grass ( Real ) Greens.
Although highly unlikely, it at all possible that a regulatory body might consider the payment of a notional amount of money to be acceptable recompense for the tick of approval for an inappropriate shoe
Graham Archell
Every bowls shoe I have ever seen, is flat.
Likewise, when some one has their (Everyday Sneaker) have a flat surface glued to the sole, is flat.
Most likely, the issue really isn't the lack of a flat sole on the shoe being used (although depending on the shoe or bottom it could be).
I think the most likely issue, is that players are dragging their back foot, and actually twisting with torque, even with flat soled shoes.
Maybe, a rule could be brought in, just like the rule about foot faulting. If it is seen, the umpire could make a caution, we have rules against dumping to protect greens, why not a rule about not damaging the greens?
Regards,
Rob Amos
It's interesting reading the Rumours File coming up to a new pennants season and wonder if it does our Clubs and pennant competition any good in the long run with unnecessary transfers.
We see players moving from one Club to another presumably with a financial incentive of some form offered to them.
Clubs have battled and disappeard over time after pursuing the dream of winning a particular division or flag to be left in the lurch with the exodus of journeymen players.
What other sport allows for a transfer within two months of the season starting for a player to leave a Club in the lurch and move to another during a competition season?
Club selectors must be wanting to pull their hair out if lucky enough to still have some if confronted with this.
I understand many of us want to be our best and play against the best to improve our personal game , but why not help build the competition within your locally established Bowlo and build a strong district based competition close to home.
Other factors may come into play such as residential relocation, compatibility, social activities etc which are acceptable motives to play elsewhere.
Clubs also bare a responsibility for creating this scenario of chasing rainbows instead of working hard to build up the grass roots level of bowls within their catchment areas.
Club volunteers who turn up weekly to keep the grounds, greens and social activities bubbling along would surely like to see more on the ground help by journeyman to take our game into the future.
I look forward to seeing other views from readers who may wish to express their opinions via this forum.
Anon
Thanks for the letter. There are always a variety of reasons for player movements some of which you have itemised above. You can also include a players desire to play at a higher level than his current club may not be able to provide; either by a lack of good players to get promoted or a lack of desire to bowl higher. And bowlers egos are such that it can be easy to put a player offside and then that player will want to depart a club. The desire to play with family members, moving closer to home, a even playing in a less competitive environment can also be reasons. It would be nice for people to pick a club and stay there no matter what, but we also can't hinder a club or a player wanting to play higher or better than where they currently sit.
It's a good discussion point and would welcome comment on it.
What? most club transfers happen, not for money? I mean, who pays for players? Most clubs do not.
People should and do transfer, I think mostly, for the chance to play in higher divisions, and particularly often - to play with better players, and perhaps more so, different players.
You haven't put your name to what you posted, and I think that is fine. But why should a player be bound to one club? Seriously, some of our best players move between clubs every other season!
Nope, transfer is not an issue. If you want to keep players at your club, then build a culture, and a milieu that retains them.
Joining a club, shouldn't be a life sentence, but if it is a stepping stone, then so be it.
Play where you want, with who you want, and do so with out predjudice.
Regards,
Rob Amos
Rob's reply is very good and firstly, like all sports, players should be free to move to which ever club they choose.
However, the underlying problems that all bowling clubs are faced with is the fact that every season certain players continually move from club to club chasing a higher division or an opportunity for a higher playing position. This certainly creates problems for the new club because evidently these players take positions of current club players who have played all season and now face the prospect of moving down a division or losing their position. How many times every year do we see this happen and then if the division is lost at the end of the new season the same players move again and again.
There needs to be something done to stop this however, it is a difficult problem that does not appear to have an acceptable solution, unless player movements are restricted.
Certainly as an example, players of the caliber of Daniel Trewella moving to Mt Lawley next season are a positive for the club and all players would happily shift down for a a player of his ability. However the other players who continually move each season create problems for clubs that certainly needs to be addressed.
What can Bowls WA or Clubs do to alleviate this problem ?
I am sure there are many possibilities however how do we restrict player movements that ultimately upset the status quo of the newly joined clubs. The answer may lie in adopting a similar situation to other sports, whereas each club has a certain catchment area for the acquisition of players. Players can only play at the clubs in these areas, unless they have relocated their residential address or being able to move to a club to play with another family member.
It is a perplexing question that I am sure, everyone has their own opinions and answers. It would be interesting to get the ideas of other bowlers and finally find a solution to the yearly problem.
Certainly Clubs themselves have to remind themselves of their responsibility to club stability and harmony and provide support to their existing players. However, club aspirations to playing in a higher division seem to outweigh these year in and year out.
Shane ShawShane Shaw
Thanks Shane. I've had an idea for a while about re-introducing city zones, and within those zones having championships and reprentative play like how the country does it and other states. Whilst I don't believe we should restrict people from living in 1 zone and playing in another, maybe by having zone rep teams then people at the upper level, and let's be honest they seem to be the only players who move around, then player movement might naturally be restricted. Not sure how, but, you know, maybe. Ultiamtely though I don't think Bowls WA should really place restrictions on movement, we want players to be happy and to stay in the game, and whether that is at club A or club B I don't think really matters.
In regards to players moving clubs I think it is great for the competition and the more movement that happens the greater the comp as a whole will get more even
I play at a big club and trying to get new players in is very hard as a lot of the old guys over 65 still want to play premier bowls but if there is someone younger and of a similar level of talent then if those players don't get a go they will want to change clubs to play at a higher level
You only have to loose a player once and they won't return
It does make it difficult as a lot of the older generation are very loyal but if they want there club to attract new players and younger players to your club them hard calls need to made by selectors
And good on clubs who can find the finances to pay players as a lot of hard work goes in chasing sponsors and trying to make clubs better and attract new talent isn't easy
Anon
The following deals with the issue of players deliberately displacing bowls, specifically their own teams in order to gain an advantage.
There is a very clear intent in this change and whilst some will just enforce the law as written, we encourage all of you to understand the intent and application and the reasons for introducing this change. None of us like a cheat and cheats never prosper. It was with this in mind that a proposal was submitted to deal more robustly with those individuals that feel it necessary to cheat.
To set the scene here are some scenarios to consider.
A team is holding 4 shots and the third in the team asks their skip to draw another on the backhand. The bowl is delivered but the third soon realises that it both narrow and heavy and heading straight for the jack. With no back bowls, hitting the jack would be disastrous and so the third steps out in front of the head and stops the skips bowl from disturbing the head.
Until now the only resolution for this would be for the opposing skip to declare the bowl dead.
Hardly a punishment when that bowl was proving to be too damaging to the head anyway and is probably better off sitting on the bank.
How about the skip that moves one of their own short bowls out of the way to allow their thirds bowl to pass as it was on a good line and length. Again the only punishment was for the opponent to replace the bowl that was moved. So a tougher stance has been taken on these blatant acts of cheating with the introduction of two laws that will deal with the above scenarios. In both the penalty being forfeiture of the game.
There is clearly some clarification needed here as well. Questions are already being raised about the innocence of stopping one of your bowls from going into the ditch when it has missed the head and is a little heavy, everyone does it. Let’s remember that other displacement laws still apply. There should be no reason or scenario where players have to touch, lift, stop or otherwise interfere with bowls from their own team or their opponents during the game. If they avoid this, then they avoid any displacement penalty in the Laws.
The Laws Committee have pre-emptied some of these queries and have published clarification on the intent of these new laws. This clarification is duplicated below .
World Bowls Laws Committee Clarification December 2022 - Law 37.1 Deliberate Bowl Displacement
In response to questions being asked about the introduction of two new laws relating to the deliberate displacement by a player of their own bowl in its original course or bowl at rest, the LC would like to clarify the intent of these laws. The addition of these two new Laws was approved at the Biennial Council meeting of World Bowls held on 7th August 2022. Laws Committee Clarification
In the Laws of the Sport Crystal Mark Third Edition, the penalty for displacing a bowl on its original course was for the opposing skip to declare the bowl dead, Law 37.1.1.1. Similarly, the action of lifting a bowl at rest to allow their own bowl to pass or prevent it from being disturbed was also dealt with by the opponent by simply replacing the bowl to its former position, Law 37.1.5.1. These counter-actions were arguably what the offending player was trying to achieve and were not considered to be a suitable penalty. There was no other law to cover these scenarios other than using Law 36 Deliberate non-sporting action, by the time this is applied it is too late.
In the Crystal Mark Fourth Edition, two new laws were approved and included within Law 37.1 Bowl Displacement by another player, to alleviate the situation of a player stopping one of their own teams bowls from disturbing the head and gaining an advantage either by lifting a bowl at rest or stopping their bowl in its original course. These are:
Law 37.1.3 If a player deliberately stops or displaces one of their own team’s bowls in its original course; or
Law 37.1.5.3 if a player deliberately lifted a bowl at rest to allow their own bowl to continue on its original course.
The Laws Committee felt that the clear deliberate intent by a player to interfere with their own bowls in this way should warrant a more severe penalty which would be the forfeiture of the game. Both laws state that the “defaulting team will forfeit the game to their opponent”.
Where that team is part of a Side game, only that team will forfeit the game, not the entire side. We recommend that Controlling Bodies include details of how the scoring should be adjusted in their competition Conditions of Play.
The new laws were not introduced to ‘punish’ players that stop a bowl from entering the ditch that hasn’t disturbed the head. The Laws Committee understands this occurs on a regular basis but it is a timely reminder and a key message from the Laws Committee that no bowl belonging to the players on the rink of play should be lifted, stopped or displaced. Other laws are available to deal with situations where bowls displace other bowls and the jack and these should still be applied accordingly.
The following link may give more info. Note the implementation date although my understanding is the the new laws might not be applicable in WA until our playing season is finished in May
I thought a good topic of discussion would be the Saturday venue for the finals now being confirmed as Thornlie Bowling Club as the members there have been told
Also Wednesdays ladies also being played on a synthetic surface
Surely we have enough good grass greens in the state to not having to be playing on fake grass
With only 1 synthetic team in the final 4 it’s a strange desision although that club does have a lot of power on the board
Be a great topic to discuss even white and blue top 4 are all dominated by grass clubs so why would they break traditio it’s called Lawn Bowls for a reason and we have enough great grasss in Perth
Thanks for the letter and it is a good discussion. What do others think? I actually think it's a good thing to spread around the grass and non-grass finals. There are a few things to consider -
* Around 63% of surfaces in the state are synthetic, yes a lot of those are country clubs but even the Metro area would be quite close to 50% anyway I think. So why should they be disadvantaged by playing on a surface unfamiliar to them during the flag? Like the NFL I think it's good to move the 1st division finals around.
* It's probably difficult to find a club with 3 good grass greens that isn't playing finals as well. The decision has to be made a few games out from the end of the season, but we can already rule out Manning, Doubleview, Osborne Park from Premier. Sorrento were in the four when the decision was made remember so they are out. In white you lose Joondalup, Bassendean and Mosman Park. Blue North is clear and South Vic Park.
So there isn't much left, Yokine again, but who else? I think it's fantastic that Thornlie have the opportunity to host the finals games and I'm sure they'll do a good job.
With reference to the letter and response to Thornlie being selected as the venue for Saturday’s finals and as a possible participant in such is it then a possibility that one of Manning, Leeming, VicPk/Carlisle, Kardinya, South Perth or Fremantle may have to contest the right to play One White next season by playing Thornlie at Thornlie ?.
My understanding was that a neutral venue was always the preferred option when selecting the venue for finals.
If I have misunderstood the original letter which, as a lover of grass & a loather of the other fake stuff, I agree with wholeheartedly please accept my apologies.
If, on the other hand, I have interpreted it correctly would you not agree that the vagaries of conditions & surface at Thornlie offers considerable advantage to those who play on it regularly in the one game that determines whether the season is an outstanding success or an awful disappointment at the final hurdle.
Your thoughts would be much appreciated.
Regards Graham Archell.
No that’s not how it works. At the moment Thornlie sit 5th, the team that finished 1st which is Manning will play the team on Top of Blue north (Doubleview at the moment) on Sunday for the flag. On Saturday the teams finishing 2nd and 3rd will play off in the morning, and then play White's 7th or 8th in the afternoon. I suppose it is possible that Thornlie can finish 2nd and then host the game on Saturday but then any team that finishes 2nd will get that same privilege, whether that Thornlie, Vic Park, Leeming or Kardinya. Thornlie cannot finish 1st and so will not be playing for the 1st Blue flag, so the 1st division will be neutral.
Hope that makes sense!
In regards to the letter about finals on synthetic:
In the case of the ladies finals on Wednesday, the reason it was played on synthetic is basically because all of the 'traditional' grass venues for finals were actually playing in the three days of finals. Osborne Park, Manning, Yokine, Sorrento, Joondalup. I personally thought Cambridge was a fantastic venue, I've never played on the green we were on before and it ran beautifully. And I believe the commentators mentioned it on the stream, they also had to think of a venue that had accommodation for plenty of spectators and also plenty of car parking, with 3 greens available. With almost 50% of greens in the metro area being synthetic these days, with more being converted, maybe this is the way the competition will go in the future. Saffronne Alden
Finals venues : Top team in PL and White alternate hosting year by year.Blue North and South do the same.
Reward the Clubs that achieve the top spot with a bit of revenue / income, they are usually the ones putting in the most.
issues with synthetic if there is too much rain, they don't drain that well sometimes. Grass can take a fair amount of water. Last year in the Blitz 30 minutes of drizzle and Thornlie was ponding.
A centrally located venue will attract the best crowd you would think.
Neville Stevens
Dear Sir I write with reference to your review of last week's One Blue South game of Hilton Park vs Victoria Park Carlisle.
I found it most disrespectful to both teams.
I played in the game for Vic Pk & find your remarks regarding the Hilton Park boys' attitude to the game quite offensive.
I can assure you that apart from playing the game in the best of spirit they tried their best throughout & to opine otherwise is unwarranted.
You write that South Perth were outstanding whilst beating Thornlie by 40 points but intimate that Vic Pk/ Carlisle, winners by 48 points, had only to turn up because the Hilton Park boys were, in your words, "insipid".
I would appreciate it if you were to publish this letter on your site as the opinion of others who took part in the game or were present as spectators might perhaps be of interest to us both.
Yours Sincerely
Graham Archell.
Thanks Graeme for your letter. The feedback is welcome - it highlights how hard it is to write a review based on numbers alone. For anyone reading and plays in 1st division there are avenues for any players to send a short note about the game they played in to any of my volunteer scribes to describe things about the game to include. White and Blue north have created their own email address and for Premier League and blue south they can send to info@bowls360.com.au. If this doesn't occur, then we look at the figures and write a short analysis of the game based upon previous results and the game played.
On the face of it, Hilton have put the queue in the rack, which is not suggesting they aren't trying but aren't good enough. Insipid might be too strong but any performance where you lose by nearly 50 shots, on top of a loss by 55 the week before, is not a good look on paper. They did lose some good players in the off season which they haven't been able to cover, 2nd division at the moment appears to be thier level.
But thanks for the letter and I am always looking for scribes for our 1st division, if Vic Park Carlisle just fall short perhaps you can put your hand up? It is a tough job and why they all want to remain anonymous so they can voice their feelings about games without repercussions on a personal level. I am forever grateful to all our scribes who give up hours of their time every week for their work
Is it time to bring in a rule for pennants that players can change positions within their rinks during the game?
With the advent of women in the next few years playing in the mens Saturday competition I believe this would make the game more exciting and more players would be inclined to play pennants .
Bowls as far as I know is the only team sport where the position of players cant be changed.
Your thoughts please!!!
Mike Zusman
Hi Simon, fully agree with Mike Zusman that Bowlswa or Bowls Australia looking into being able to change players in positions during games. The only problem I see is who makes the changes, Skipper or Manager of the team. The internations bowling group do allow this to happen in there charity matches & I did see it happen in one of these games, I think it could be tried in say a game Metro v Country if all agreed just to see how it would work. Bowls needs a lift & this could help.
Roger Barns
I actually don't mind it either Mike and Roger, I'm almost certain it occurs in the Qld Premier League currently being played. There might be restrictions according to World Bowls rules, I'm not sure, and you would certainly need to get some rules established such as who makes the moves, how many moves, can movements be made across rinks, should it only be for those not skippering etc. I think we are a long way from this occurring in our regular pennant play, but the more time goes on the more I can see some sort of extra competition established where the rules are not conventional (ie similar to how NSW and Qld have their pennant structure).
G,day Simon,just confirming that the Internations Bowling Club has a ruling that the manager or skipper can Rotate players on that rink at finish of end. Its worked well 4 the many years I've been involved. We also have a score-board advancement process everybody loves !! Cheers.
Dave Wood.
Hi Simon,
I've been reading the letters on changing player positions during a game. This is from the Premier League Queensland (PLQ) Conditions of Play: "At any time during the match, from end 1 to 21, each rink, whether it is Premier Grade or Reserve Grade, may change the playing positions within its own rink. i.e. - lead go to skip, skip to third etc. There are unlimited changes available within the rink but only at the one time. This can only occur after the end is completed and not whilst an end is in play. Once this change has been made, it can’t be changed back at all, the players will have to play in the new positions for the rest of the match. To invoke any changes, the players within the rink wanting to change must announce the change to the opposition first and then the team managers. The end can’t start until all parties are notified."
So far, I've only had this happen to me in one game where I've gone from second to third. Some of our other rinks do it quite regularly. Usually there is an assessment of how things are going after the first third of the game and if required, changes are made in the hope of improving the result.
Another interesting item in the COP is the amount of time available for trial ends: "The Host Club shall have their greens ready and available for their visiting club to roll-up/practicenot later than 1 hour prior to the start of play."
I find this much better than the usual two trial ends. Particularly when playing away on a green you've never played on before. The extra time helps you work out the quirks of the green and get used to the prevailing conditions. Well that's the theory - it didn't help me much at Burleigh Heads on Sunday :)
A couple of other points about PLQ:
1. The number of alterations to fixtures. After week 6 (round 7 of the draw), there is one team that has played 9 games, one team that has played 8 games, 7 teams that have played 7 games and 3 teams that have played 6 games. One reason is those clubs with interstate players and/or national representatives will seek to alter fixtures to suit player availability.
2. The starting time of games. Over 11 rounds these are the start times: 10am, 2pm, 3pm, 4pm, 5pm. Each club has a preference for their home game start time. At Enoggera we start at 4pm on a Saturday. One reason for the later start times is that some clubs may have other competitions that run earlier in the day. Also there is quite a lot of travel involved, so a later start time gives you more time to get to the venue however it does mean a very late return to home. That's if you decide to go home. If I'm playing away against a Gold Coast club then I book some accommodation and make a weekend of it.
Cheers
Warwick
Thanks Warwick, interesting to see how it works in Queensland PL. I'm pretty sure in saying that this competition is separate from the standard Pennants that gets played and so they can institute rules that are different and a bit out there.
Hello Simon.
A sincere thank you to Mike Zusman for at least thinking outside the envelope. With any Skip,third,second,or lead....surely there IS an urgent need....to spice up our breed...of bowls... from which too many players have regrettably flee'd.
SO: why not play seven ends. then rotate the positions. Let's permit possibilities and allow broader visions. Let's play another seven, then rotate once more. The pressure is on to build our overall score. Then revert back to the original skip third second and lead. Any new beginnings require the planting (and dying) of seed.
At least let's shake up the current Comp. format. Lest our beautiful fun game become extinct or dormant.
kind regards.
Ronald Ross (5th division Ellenbrook)
Our first hot day of the pennant season and I suspect one of many more. What's the wash up? Firstly let's look at the rules that we all play under surrounding the heat. Rule 13.1 (i) says basically if play is forecast to reach 41c or over then a general abandonement will be called at 5pm the day prior. Rule 13.2 (iv) says "should the temperature reach 38c, then the umpire of the day is to review the previaling conditions and defer play in accordance with Metropolitan Pennant competition General Conditions"
So let's look at those general conditions, I think it might be Rule 8.2.2 (i) - The Umpire of the Day shall consult with all Team Managers, and as sole arbiter, make the decision to abandon or continue play for all the sides at the venue. If a manager disagrees with the decision not to continue before the required 90 minutes has elapsed, this needs to be noted on the Umpires report, in case of a protest, and forwarded to Bowls WA"
Ok, so they are the rules. Are we any clearer about it? I'm not, not really. My understanding of the rule was, if the temperature reaches 38c or more, then we come off until the temperature goes back under 38c. If that takes 90 minutes, then the game is abandoned. The rules don't indicate that at all though, it appears as though there is still some judgement to be applied by the Umpire of the Day. And when judgement is applied, that is where anomalies occur.
What frustrates me is the apparent inconsistency with the application of the rule at clubs. the following clubs were abandoned yesterday - Cockburn, Ellenbrook, Forrestfield, Lake Monger, Leeming, Osborne Park, Quinns Rocks, South Perth, Victoria Park Carlisle, Warwick. Osborne Park is abandoned, yet clubs within 6kms played, clubs like Yokine, Nollamara, Mt Lawley and Innaloo. Forrestfield abandoned, Bassendean and Thornlie play. Leeming abandoned, Kardinya & Willetton play. The list continues. It's this inconsistency that frustrates the general bowling community.
This needs to be fixed. Something hard and fast such as a temperature should be easy to implement. Once it hits 38c, games stop until it gets under. End of story. Does the temperature need to be shown to the team managers. Should it? Of course this all relies on the temperature gauge being reliable and in an appropriate spot. Technology is so good these days, can we just rely on the BOM temp at a given time? Everyone has a smart phone, could the umpire consult BOM, it's over 38c, he shows the team managers of the sides and they come off, until BOM comes back under 38 if that occurs within 90 minutes. I think we need to remove the subjectivity of temperature and make it easy for the Umpire of the Day.
The other option is we get Bowls WA to become our policeman, and on days of heat like we saw yesterday, then clubs can document at 30 minute intervals the temperature to ensure transparency if it should be abandoned. Granted this is a bit extreme and I'm sure Bowls WA don't want to be lumbered with extra paperwork.
It won't change this season so we will have to work within the confines of the current rules but I hope they get tweaked in the off season.
This is my 5th season here in WA and it is the mildest summer by far, if this was last year half the season would of just about been abandoned with the heat rule.
I really think we need a structure in place for next season before things get out of hand. Back home it wasn’t uncommon for us to get rained off, if this was the case and the threshold of ends wasn’t completed the game was completed the following Sunday, I know this would be too hard for us as it would clash with state events but perhaps a spare weekend after the season for in-completed games to get played or an arrangement between the 2 clubs to get the match completed
Just one 4 all draw could be the difference between playing finals and missing out as also relegation so I think every effort should be made to get all matches completed
Lord Such
Regards heat rule. I play midweek pennants in Perth but most of my bowls are played in the bush.
I understand the reasoning behind the heat rules with duty of care probably number 1.
My take on it is that we need a solution to the problem of abandoned games.ie. to not abandon them.. Alot of clubs in the bush have installed overhead misters and on hot, 40 plus days , it completely changes the felt temperature to a pleasant level.
I believe the solution we need is this relatively easy and not high cost ,cheep to run.
The emerging problems are solved. A sub committee could investigate the effectiveness, cost and implementation fairly quickly.
Cheers and happy cool bowling
Bill Fraser
Lots of debate surrounding the decision to cancel some games on Saturday.
I was involved in the game at Warrick - Three ends - a lengthy wait (very relaxing and pleasant I might add - cheers for the chat John) - game called off.
No one in WA was keener to play than I was. Yet for me to complain about it would be completely disrespectful to our manager Jeff, the opposition manager and the umpire of the day. They have put their heads together, consulted the guidelines and come up with a verdict.
Surely it is best that these “verdicts” are localised. Great that many games were able to go ahead. Well done to those guys who put their hands up to be umpires and managers.
Regards
Wayne Coffey
I read this thread with a great deal of interest.
I personally believe the heat rule, when applied to some games in a division, skews overall end of season results to the detriment of all clubs.
Some sides, let’s call them “Division 2 Orange”, will play on the day and others won’t.
I believe the only true way to provide an even competition is apply the abandonment to all sides in “Division 2 Orange”.
One out, all out. Award 4 points or 0 pts whatever.
If the heat rule allows you to play on the day, play.
Nobody knows what’s happening at other venues, but if there is an abandonment in the division and all games should be cancelled, call it practice, have a bite to eat and a beer.
Regards
Craig Brown
Heat rule needs to be changed I think it would be unfair if a game gets abandoned costing a team a potential 8 Points when it comes down to the pointy end of the season. Managers of the team should ask if all players are willing to compete if the thermometer reaches 38 and above If any players are struggling have a 10 minute break. 10 ends shouldn't justify a game being played whoever is on top at the time of the abandonment should be declared the winner.
We nearly got our game abandoned on the weekend 32 shots up with 8 points if it was abandoned 4 points would of been a kick in the guts. If there is a breeze it definitely cools things down alot . So coastal sides would have more advantage playing when it's hot.
Needs to be addressed quickly because on the weekend osbourne park were very stiff with this heat rule and could play a major part for finals.
Mitchell
The decision at Osborne Park was made after consultation with ALL Managers.
The temp did not drop below 38C before 90 minutes of delay time. Everything done by the book, nothing stiff about. The fact that some players may not have been happy with the abandonment is irrelevant.
Apparently some clubs are using the BOM App to determine the current temperature and NOT the prescribed device...hardly legal.
Nev Stevens.
Thanks Nev for clarifying what happened at your game. I encourage people to send in views, I don't think Mitchell was alluding to skullduggery at all, more about the potential ramifications. It's a slippery slope if people not at a venue make inferences about what occurred elsewhere. I've done some analysis around BOM and I am now a bit lukewarm on their usage. I'll flesh it out and post something in the coming days.
Clarification regarding Saturday 4th February 2023. Hilton Park Vs Forrestfield - Forfeit.
First of all the reason we forfeited wasn’t because it was too hot for us
The temperature reached 38+ degrees at 3.25Pm , so the Forrestfield Umpire of the day called the teams off the green . The actual temperature was 39.4 degrees. A 90 minute wait would have resulted in the game being resumed at 4.55pm, if the temperature did in fact fall. (it didn’t) .
More than half of the Hilton members had prior commitments post game, which included Paid tickets to events, Sporting and family functions., and could ill afford a restart later that afternoon/ early evening.
There were 3 choice presented -
Stay and wait out the 90 minutes in the event the temperature dropped below 38 degrees, and restart game
Stay, wait out the 90 mins and share the 4 points with Forrestfiled.
Or Forfeit and gift Forrestfield 8 points.
The decision was made by the club members in attendance to Forfeit, as there was no difference to the ladder placings or no real advantage by gaining the 4 points for the abandonment.
Yes we are conceding that we have struggled this season due to player losses and fielding sides with 1st year bowlers and will be relegated. Not our preferred option but 1 that we a faced with.
Hoping this clarifies the matter .
Craig Standley
President
HPBC
Hi Simon My thoughts on starting at 4pm on Thursday.
We arrived in Kalamunda around 3.15pm. Had to contend with the after school traffic but had plenty of time. I was hoping players would think to arrive early so to start the roll up around 3.30 but it wasn't to be.
As for the game. It started with a fresh easterly and was quite warm early, then slowly cooled as the game progressed. The wind died off around 6ish and as the sun starting setting, the lights started to take effect, the green quickened and the evening become a wonderful temperature to play bowls.
We finished playing around 7.45 and the Kalamunda members treated us to a sausage sizzle and a cold beer. The atmosphere was awesome with small groups of players standing around chatting together and enjoying the cooling evening, while waiting for the final rink to finish. Well done Kalamunda.
After dropping off the other rink members, I arrived home in South Fremantle around 9pm. I would mark it as a great experience and look forward to next Thursday at home when we will need to decide if we play on the grass or the synthetic.
4pm worked a treat, we won 6-0. LOL. Temp was coming off by 4pm, would have been a struggle with normal start. Probably 30 or 40 spectators so that's a good thing. Some nice snacks afterwards and everyone (most) for a drink or seven. So far so good for the BWA initiative.
Thank you you having a forum where we may make comments to hopefully make pennant bowls more sustainable .
I am a team member in 3rd division and have canvassed fellow bowlers within our Club as well as the 2 opposition Clubs played on Thursday evenings so far.
The response from all 3rd division and lower players was 100% against the late start plus the few 1st division players spoken to.
The factors that caused the most complaints were.
Driving to a venue in the heat of the day and starting when maximum temperature has been reached and continues until the game is almost complete.
Driving home in the dark, arriving home at approximately 8.30 to a spouse who sits alone waiting for you to come home to prepare the evening meal.
Happy wife happy life!!
Not conducive to a good family atmosphere where most bowlers on a Thursday are in their 70s and eighties their spouse who would be of the same age bracket not considered when the late start was established.
Having a late meal and trying to sleep on a full stomach still hyped up from the game does not work.
I could go on and on with some of the unsavoury comments expressed but then you may not be able to post my letter.
Regards
Anon
G’day Simon,
Couldn’t agree with you more about the heat rule implemented during the state singles.
I also played at Gosnells on Saturday, and whilst it got to 41 degrees I am sure the surface temp was well above 50.
I am not normally effected by the heat but during my second game, the third game in our section, although I had been drinking plenty of water and Powerade I started to feel quite unwell. I am sure I was not the only one affected and the 10 minute break could not have come at a better time as it allowed me to try and cool my body temp down and allowed me to finish my game.
I too would like to see this implemented for pennants as it would allow for all games to be completed.
Credit must go to the organising body at Gosnells for the way it was handled.
cheers
Gavin Faulkner
Interesting letter about starting a at 4PM Thursday Leaving home about 2.30pm bowling
3.45 -7.15 arriving home 9pm had a cold beer, anybody inclined to do this after work would be putting in a full day and what do the signs say dont drive tired , cant comment on playing I refused to 4pm start didnt like letting my team mates down but clubs had the oportunity to canvass their players many did and changed the time some didnt bother.
George
Long shot but thought I’d see if you know of any FIFO friendly clubs. I’ve started FIFO work 7 days in and 7 days off so am available for pennants Thursday and Saturday for every second week. My current club have now placed me as an emergency so have gone from Div 1 to not getting games (well I’ve got a game this week in Div4 but the quality of bowls drops dramatically). Rather than give the sport up, I thought I’d reach out and see if you’re aware of any clubs that tend to pick the best available players and don’t discard you if you can’t be available every week?
Name withheld by request
Thanks for the letter, this is a common occurence sadly, some clubs do it well but sadly most don't. Unfortunately as the transfer window has closed you won't be able to change clubs but I'm sure there are clubs around who can cater for a week in week out sort of bowler.
It's something that clubs and players are going to have to become used to though, FIFO workers are coming more common place and their availbility week in week out won't be stable. Gone are the days when a player needs to commit to 18 games a year at the expense of work, family or social life. If we are to build this game by enticing new bowlers under the age of 50 we need to be a bit more relaxed about their availbility whether that's for 1 game or 9. If a person is available then a team and club should pick him based on his ability and not because of his availbility.
What do you think, would love some feedback from people about it?
Hi Simon
In response to the letter about FIFO workers and availability.
I have been a selector at Fremantle for over 3 seasons.
Due to his work commitments, one of our players has only been available on Saturdays every 2nd week and sometimes because of other breaks in fixtures may miss 2 weeks.
Markus is selected whenever he is available to play in our top side as he is in the top 16 players in the club.
As a selector, it can be tricky because you need to find another player that can accept the fact he may be in and out of the side to accomodate selecting Markus. We have never had an issue finding that player and with unavailability a constant issue with selection, it is really quite easy.
Regards
Peter Wachmer
Perth and Tattersalls embraces all bowlers (Male and Female) and have a number of FIFO workers that we accommodate week in and week out. Any FIFO worker that wants to play Pennant Bowls please feel free to contact the club on 62614271 and we will welcome you with open arms. Also any bowler transferring to the club gets the first years membership for free as well as a free Pennant shirt.
Gary
Selector
Perth and Tattersalls
FEBRUARY 2023 MIDWEEK PENNANT START TIME
Bowls WA imposed a set play trial period for midweek pennants that proved unpopular and was discontinued before the end of the trial period.
Now they want to trial a 4.00 PM start in February 2023.
This was raised at the Bowls WA President's forum in May 2022 and at the July 2022 AGM.
Whilst our club Perth and Tatts did not attend either meeting from what I have heard from clubs that did attend they were not given the opportunity to discuss the matter with their members before attending and were not in a position to discuss the matter if allowed.
Notes from the Presidents forum does not report on any debate or motions to adopt this trial period nor the same with the AGM.
From past experience they probably would not have been allowed to, Bowls WA would have ruled they wanted a trial period.
Having made preliminary inquiries with Bowls WA after a lot of clubs we played against mid-week expressed concern with the 4.00 PM start our club was initially advised by Bowls WA that by agreement clubs could change the start time back to normal.
Now Bowls WA have made an announcement that clubs will have to complete a Alteration To Pennant Fixture Form by the 12th January 2023.
This announcement appears to conflict with Bowls WA Midweek Pennant Competition Conditions Of Play Clause 5 (vi) It is understood some clubs may have circumstances that may not allow them to host the February start time. With agreement of the competing clubs times ay be adjusted to suit both clubs.
The 4.00 PM start time also conflicts with Clause 13.2 (iii) Any game midweek pennant only not commenced by 3.00 PM shall be treated as abandoned.
It would be of interest to do a poll now that clubs have had time to consider what the alteration to start times will affect
1. No evening meal leaving home around 3.00 PM getting home around 9.00 PM
2. Driving tired at night time.
3. Vision for the older generation is not the best at night time for a number of them.
4. Those who have to travel in outer areas will have to cope other hazards (Kangaroos etc)
These concerns have been raised with our club and passed on to Bowls WA who are not willing to change, perhaps a lawsuit from a player who suffers a mishap will help them see the light.
Terry McCormack
Perth And Tattersalls
Thanks Terry for your letter. I don't play Midweek so hard for me to comment on the impact it will have on me personally. What I can say is that this change was not a Bowls WA initiative (I don't think, I could be wrong here) but rather something that was proposed and seconded by 2 clubs at the Presidents forum and voted favourably to make the change. My experience at Presidents forums is they are attended by Presidents of clubs who are of a retiring age, very few play 1st division bowls, and it's more likely than not that the votes taken are taken from a personal view and not a direct reflection of the members of their club or the competition as a whole. Of course that's not true of all attendees, but it's what I have found to be the case.
There is also a misunderstanding that the Presidents Forum is a discussion group for proposed changes, however as we saw this year it is actually used by Bowls WA as a means of introducing change on the majority of votes cast.
Back to the midweek change, these changes were made because a constant feedback to Bowls WA has been about driving in peak hour traffic is shithouse. However the solution for the month of February doesn't seem like the best solution to that problem, especially when you take in to account the heat at that time of the year. A better solution would have been to start midweek at 10pm, be done by 1pm for players to have some lunch and then be home by 2pm. Heat is taken out of the equation as will be traffic. The hottest part of the day is generally 3-5pm, so a 4pm will not solve this problem. It will be interesting to track the temperatures and if any games will be heated off. The current heat rules are such that a game may not even start by 5pm!
I won't say anything about time changes for games except that if 2 teams agree to a start time and sign off on the relevant paperwork then it should be approved, I don't see how if 2 clubs want to play at 10am, 12pm, 1.30pm or 4pm that it makes any difference to Bowls WA, unless it is Round 18.
As President of Bowls WA, I chaired the Presidents’ Forum held at the Bayswater Bowling Club on the 16th May 2022.
It is important that some facts are presented:
- The original agenda and supplementary information was forwarded to ALL metropolitan clubs on 26th April following a call for agenda items on 12th April,
- Following the distribution, some additional items were received – these were added to the agenda and forward again to ALL metropolitan clubs on 2nd May.
Depending on how clubs operate this provided ample time for committees to discuss matters with who they wish and come armed to the meeting with the club’s agreed position.
One of the ten agenda items raised was a Thursday start time of 10.00am, put forward by Bayswater, Belmont and later on Midland-Morrison Bowling Clubs. This was discussed at length by those in attendance (over 40 clubs) with each of the proposing clubs putting forward their reasoning for the change. Following discussion the 10.00am start time was not supported by the clubs, but an alternative of a 4.00pm start time was suggested and discussed accordingly. Although not reaching 100% consensus, it was agreed this was a trial and that a 4-game trial in February was supported.
The meeting then moved onto other agenda items such as Ladies Tuesday start times etc.
The Forum prior to the Annual General Meeting then highlighted and confirmed the discussion from Bayswater and the changes for the forthcoming season. A slide display at the Thornlie Bowling Club was used where the 4.00pm start time was confirmed, as was other items such as the expansion of Open Gender, Ladies Tuesday start time and changes to the Heat Rules.
These are the facts on how the process worked and where we are now.
To finish, my closing address to the Forum was to ask clubs as custodians of the sport to embrace and drive change and be brave in order to stop the continued decline in membership, which commenced in the late 1980s. A membership in that time of 37,000+ to just over 13,000 now is simply not sustainable.
Doug Kelly – President
I was present at that meeting. Reading the Presidents account of what transpired I must have made a mistake and went to the wrong meeting. When the subject was raised about a 4 pm trial the CEO stated, “ This is set in stone. It will happen. It will not be changed†No vote was taken.
Ian Edgar - Merriwa
I'd like to make a comment on the time limit for the State Pairs. I cant remember when it was introduced or remember if any, a communication as to why it was introduced. It has never affected me, nor my team mates, I have ever taken too long to decide a bowl to play. I hit somewhat a fair share of drives but due to my ideal about the game rarely drive anyway. So that is seldom an impact on time.
My experience out at Thornlie for the state pairs, I would say on average had about 8 - 10 minutes spare with 1 dead end. I observed multiple teams miss the mark. Some by up to 4 ends.
So with the time schedule, we finished at 6. I guess not the earliest finish although should you commit to playing in the state pairs with 3 game of 15 ends, you would expect a late finish. So as an argument for this, why do we have to wait for a starting bell to start if teams are ready to play? There is time wasted in between, now it appears by the rules.
I then hear that another club didn't call time. This bewilders me as Thornlie BC, to their credit were very clear on the rules and communicated them well.
I guess the usual response that I normally get from those that make these decisions are 'well don't play', or 'bring me a solution, don't make complaints'. There are people employed to make changes, and to listen, but nothing changes.
Here is a solution for you, let the team play it out. Let team start when they want. If it goes til 7, 8, 9pm then it obviously means something. People have taken their time during the christmas, new year period (to which I will be told again, well don't play) to take the time out, and if its important then I'll assume they are ok with it. Whatever happened to the slow ply rules?
Kyle McIlroy
Thanks Kyle for the letter. A few things to disect here.
1. In my experience I look at any game and look at about 30 seconds per bowl in a match. So for a state pairs an end would take roughly 8 minutes, but you would need to add a minute because of the swap. So let's say 9 minutes per end, and thats being generous. 15 ends for a state pairs gives you 135 minutes to play your game so in a 150 minute game you only get 1 dead, maybe 2. Is that fair? Surely in a state event it's a skill to be able to kill an end and re-load in order for you to win the game.
2. Not sure when the time limit was introduced but it was been with us a couple of years at least.
3. The old "well don't play" argument. I tend to agree that if a competitor doesn't like the rules then don't play. People have voted with their feet this year - 5 sections less and I might try and work out the turnover rate, I think it's more likely that 70-80 people that played last year did not play this year. Those people have taken the "don't play" attitude.
4. The enforcement of the rules is a problem that Bowls WA needs to address, and in this manner we can't fault them. The rules are quite clear, well laid out, but like we see with so many other things, the enforcement is left to the club hosting the event. I played at Gosnells, there was no hooter to start the games, no 10 minute warning hooter. There were games played over time. No mention about stickers (mind you this is the most ridiculous rule for non-televised events anyway). The only solution is to have a Bowls WA representative at each game, which is really logistically impossible.
The mens state pairs more than any other events needs an overhaul.
- It's the only event where the men and women aren't playing at the same time.
- It's played in a period where families want to get away from work and bowls and go away. I know it's always been at this time of the year but lifestyles have changed and we need to change with it.
- Yesterday pay rates were public holidays rates, about $60 per hour so for a club to be open from 8.30am to 7pm is costing them $700 and thats if you only have 1 staff on deck. To break even a club would nearly have to make $1750 in sales for the day. Possible, be interesting to know what clubs made in revenue yesterday, but is it worth it?
- Time limits need to be scrapped. The best team should win and if you are skilled enough to kill 10 ends then so be it.
- Ends need to be reduced to 13 ends. You can get a fair result in 13 ends of pairs, even for battle hardened players pairs is an arduous day. 13 days still tests the fitness and mental toughness without leaving people limping for 3 days (maybe that's just me!)
Are afternoon teas a thing of the past? This was not an unsual occurrence during the peak of COVID but it seems at least 2 clubs and hearing a couple of others will not be serving afternoon teas after the game, however encouraging visiting bowlers to buy their own chips and chocolates at the bar instead.
Last Thursday Joondalup sent an email to all clubs (edit:apparently Osborne Park have also sent an email a few weeks ago) informing visiting teams that afternoon will not be supplied to them, and to thank them for their understanding. I wonder why have they taken this course of action? Are they still wary of germ transferrence? Is it a financial consideration for their members? Is this something as bowlers should begin to get used to? Would like to know what the readers of this page think.
It's easy to be vindictive and not serve the Joondalup players on their visit to your own club, but is that really in the spirit of the game?
RESPONSES
1. I find these decisions really strange and am interested to know the reasoning behind it. I for one like to have a little something in my stomach before enjoying my first post game beverage so personally, I would be less inclined to hang around for a drink or two if a little nosh isn't on offer. I assume others will feel the same so this will potentially impact bar takings.
I think it's important to remember that these decisions are made at executive/committee level and to not take it out on club members. If my club were to decide to go down this path, I would feel embarrassed and I assume others are currently feeling the same way.
Interested to hear others' thoughts.
Anon.
2. One of the most enjoyable traditions for this game is a beer and sandwich after the game. Doesn’t matter if you win or lose everyone gets together supports the raffles and bar.
Sorry to say but not happy Jan and personally hope whom ever made these decisions thinks about the long term ramifications to the sport.
Anon.
It is a crying shame what has happened at the once proud Melville Bowling Club.
As you would know, about forty male bowlers were basically driven out by a small but powerful group, some non bowlers, that was about four years ago. The Constitution was breached, meetings were conducted that were basically unlawful etc, the then marvellous President Garry McCormack was ostracised by this group and finally “ driven “ out, etc, etc, etc.
This latest calamity, where mostly ladies have now apparently left also, is a damn disgrace. Maybe now that the President has resigned they may consider patching things up and returning to Melville.
Anonymous
I was hoping you might be able to put a few questions I have up for comment on your site as no one seems to have the answer and was seeing if someone in the wider bowls community might know? My questions are on how the Perth Suns team is selected? Does Bowls WA or Bowls Australia select the teams? Do they need to be Australian representatives or have been in Australian or International squad members to get a place on the team? It makes no sense to have Dawn Hayman play for the Suns when the inform bowler in WA over the last 2 years misses out, surely Blake Nairn would be picked if there was not a selection criteria which we may not know about? Blake clearly has the ability and want to progress as far as possible including playing for Australia and these tournaments would provide the exposure he needs and he and the State would only benefit from it.
Regards
Name and club withheld
Dawn has been good in the past and she has embraced the Suns and given us good exposure over East. We had no way of knowing that her form would not be so good this time around, and she is the Australian squad. But I tend to agree with you, Blake is in good form at the moment, Cody and him are the best 2 males and Kristina the best female so I don't think we'd lose much. Let's give Blake a go and see how it goes.
Just thought I would share my thoughts on the no jab no play idea.
Personally I think it is inevitable that this will happen. It is already in place for restaurants, hotels, pubs, footy Casino etc, why would community sport be any different.
On a whole the community has done the right thing with almost the 90% double vaccination and the reality is whether people agree with it or not this will be the new normal.
You hear the anti vaxxers saying that they shouldn't be forced to vaccinate against their will, and that is their right, and I am all for people to have a choice, however this is a minority group in our society and as long as they are aware of the consequences, then we need to do what is best for our city and our community.
We have had it so good here in Perth, being able to lead a normal life for months and to continue that, we should understand that aside from keeping the borders closed, the best way to protect ourselves and others is vaccination.
I am not sure of the numbers in the bowls community that are unvaccinated so Perhaps BowlsWA can align with the borders opening if they go this route.
In closing as I said I think it is inevitable that this will happen and if it means that what needs to be done so we don't lose our season then so be it. Gavin Faulkner
22nd December - im not sure you get it the only ones bringing the new covid strain into the state are the ones that have had there so called safe double jab, even if youv'e had the jab you can still get it and pass it on others.
The ones that had there safe jab shouldn't worry about the ones that haven't because there now safe and the others take there chances why has the government divided everyone into has and haven't its sad to see families at each others throats over it The ones that have had the jab have turned into reformed smokers and attack the ones that haven't (stop it stop it stop it ), think about the grim reaper and how we were all going to die ? its still there !!!! Mike Bessant
Herein lies the dilemma, vaccinated people can still carry the disease and spread it. But it has been shown that unvaccinated people who catch the disease will feel its effects more, will be more likely to catch it and spread it. or for a news story.
We can't make this decision based solely on the age and health issues of fellow bowlers because COVID will still be around, they need to make their own judgement call as to whether they play or not, but we can make it as safe as possible for everyone by making playing our sport a vaccination requirement
23rd December - putting aside the issue of does the vax work, there has been evidence that people who refuse to get the jab are more likely to ignore covid safe practices. Do I want to play alongside and stand next to a person for hours who believes Covid is nothing to be worried out? Bowls is not that important to me.
What I don't believe has been considered or taken into account are close contact rules. Once Covid does start to take hold in WA, people might elect not to participate in Bowls or attend Clubs as who wants to have to isolate for 14 days as a close contact? There certainly will be interesting times ahead for Bowls WA.
What will be the procedure if a Club has to close or can't field teams due to a Covid outbreak at their Club? Michael Radalj
I suspect we'll hear from Bowls WA sooner rather than later. For those that havent seen this, to see the Bowls SA guidelines surrounding clubs. I suspect ours may be fairly similar
From a concerned club.
The story is a male member of our club of 3-4 years came in one day wearing a singlet which is against our dress code, he was asked aside and told by the bar staff if he didn't put on a sleeved shirt he wouldn't be able to get served, we do supply T-shirts on these occasions . He refused and said he was going to take this further. He did go home and put on his dressing gown and come back to the club. The bar staff did not approach him as the situation would exculate . ( We do allow females to wear singlets , shoestring tops etc as this is classed as acceptable dress)
Our by-laws are very straight forward when it comes to dress code;
Reasonable attire shall be worn at all times. Singlets or similar tops are not consider reasonable attire.
REASONABLE DRESS
shall be-
MALE MEMBERS;
Shirt, dress shorts and suitable footwear
FEMALE MEMBERS;
Must be dressed so as not to offend the dignity of the Club including suitable footwear.
This matter has now gone to Equal Opportunities Commission , the case is discrimination of sex.
We have had conciliation which means we will most likely have to change our dress code so it is a level playing field with both men and women.
We are putting this out to all clubs as we know most clubs have similar dress codes to us.
If any one has any ideas on how this should be worded please let us know .We are keen to get all opinions in this matter.
We have to work together to uphold the integergity of our clubs. So please email us with comments or suggestions.
Innaloo Sportsmens Club
President
Tammi Yardley
Email : innaloosc@westnet.com.au
Do Clubs have the best means of selecting their Selection Committees?
All the Clubs that I have been associated with (as a member, opponent, socially) have their selectors elected by members. And this seems to create a fair bit of 'discussion' one way or another - selectors look after themselves and their mates, selectors do not have a clear way of assessing all players, etc..
In professional sports, players are not involved in selection, which are 'appointed by the Management Committees. Consider the AFL, State League soccer, even the State Bowls sides.
Should bowling clubs consider doing the same? The Management Committee could 'appoint' players (or even non-players who would be able to give their full attention to the job, or any other person who is considered competent (as opposed to being 'elected' because they are seen as good guys).
The Management Committee of a Club have the ultimate responsibility of developing the objectives and strategies to achieve the Club's desired results (winning a premiership, promotion, being sociable, etc.)and should thus appoint selectors whom it believes is best able to select sides to achieve these goals.
The Club's objectives and goals should be clearly advised to members who are then able to consider if their own aims are in alignment this that of the Club. Similarly, prospective selectors should present to the Management Committee how they intend to select players in various sides.
I'm sure that many people will be able to pick holes in my proposal. But let's look at the alternatives to see if there is 'a better way'.
Dave Scott
I don't mind it Dave. You hear of plenty of examples of clubs being decimated due to the election of a poor selector or committee member, and while you can't stop the selection of committees, having the selector that is on the same page as the committeee has merit.
Also inherent to the problem are players not accepting being told when they have had a bad game/handful of games and get demoted accordingly, accusing selectors of bias or having no idea and then leave the club at seasons end. It is an unenviable position as the selector is trying to play his own game and also noting the performance of players and relying on skippers being honest about the game their players have had (and also they have had)
For example at Bassendean, last year and this season we have a selector for the PL side who does not play in that side, and for me found it worked really well because he couldn't rely on what he saw but rather had to gather as much information from a multitude of people from that team and then made reasoned choices on the team.
Maybe the best selector in your club is not your best player??
Many years ago (15 to be precise) I asked a respected member of the Yokine bowling club what the policy was on warming up on the green before a game of pairs. I still remember his words “It’s not the done thing!”
A few weeks ago I get a call from a member of the Stirling Bowling Club inviting me to play in a game of Saturday pairs. I turn up to be greeted by opponents who have been out for a lengthy period warning up!! I determined to say my piece at the completion of end one and did so.
A new player at my own club (Yokine) expressed disappointment that he had recently turned up to play at Yokine only to be confronted by experienced players who had been warming up prior to the game.
Keen to hear thoughts?
Wayne Coffey
Re Roll up etiquette letter from Mr Wayne Coffey Strange game bowls.
As far as I am aware it’s the only game in the world in which pre match practise is not only frowned upon, actively discouraged, severely limited but also, to a certain extent, actually illegal.
Must be because we are all so good we none of us need to practise.
The only salvageable aspect of last season’s mid week bowls fubar was the allowing of a pre game practise if you so desired.
The notion that a governing body is allowed to prevent sports participants from practising for as long as they wish prior to a game on the surface that is alien to them & that they will be competing on is quite absurd.
“Sorry Mr Federer, there’s a wall out the back for that sort of nonsense”
“Two three woods each gentlemen is the range limit”
“Oi !!! No hammy stretches nor sneaky little sprints Usain”
“Anyone found damp prior to the 5 metre springboard will be disqualified”
“The nets will be closed prior to & during the test”
“No fondling your balls before bounce down lads” Graeme Archell
Cheers for the response Graham. Very funny too I might add.
My idea of hell is turning up to a foreign deck for a Saturday pennant game to be greeted by 4 club hopping, never turned up to a busy bee, wouldn’t know the names of their second/third team member types who have been out warming up for an hour beforehand.
The only way you could possibly compete is to turn up early yourself or whinge and whine your way to the best rink in your club. Neither of which would be conducive to a healthy work, family, play, contribute to a community balance.
As funny as they are your examples don’t work for me Graham. Thinking you’re not allowed to: practice on the 1st green just before the start of a golf event; walk out to the middle and have a team mate bowl an over at you so you can get a feel for the bounce on a cricket pitch; have a turn or two on the bull before the rodeo ride; practice your jumps out of the barrier on your race horse; reconnaitre an orienteering course!
Studying the strings on a pinyata springs to mind too.
Regards Wayne Coffey
11th May - Men’s Promotions, Demotions Pennants (Saturday & Thursday)
The automatic promotion or relegation of the top and bottom sides should be honoured as per the Bowls WA Handbook 2019/20 Challenge or Promotional Finals
This idea should be abolished completely for the following reasons.
The length of time of about six months is just too long to sustain continuity in the season per se as well as the teams.
• There are far too many unknowns and variables to make these matches fair and reasonable.
• Some clubs may not survive this crisis.
• There will be players who have left one club and joined another club, which is normal each year. In a possible scenario, the club that a player has left may be drawn to play his new club in the proposed play offs.
• It is more than possible that players may be away on vacation when September 19th occurs.
• The date chosen for these matches is not suitable for those clubs with only grass greens. The players at these clubs will not be able to practice on a suitable green, or indeed a green that has been passed fit for Pennants. This would seem to mean that all of these vitally important matches would have to be played on synthetic greens. This is simply not fair to those clubs with grass greens.
• Finals, as we all know, are usually played immediately after the completion of the season proper.
• There may be players who are intending leaving a club and have therefore not renewed their membership. How can they then play in one of these finals games, if they are not financial?
• Why has only one date been chosen for these finals? Players may rush back from being away, and then not be able to play if the games are abandoned. They then have to wait until the start of Pennants to play again.
• A lot of bowlers do not bowl in the off season, so they would need to start practicing at least two weeks before the 19th, maybe then interrupting their holidays etc.
• From a selection perspective, it would be an onerous task just finding out who may be available.
• Why leave clubs and players on tenterhooks for such a long time, for an event that may not happen, either due to the weather or Coronavirus?
Thursday Pennants
Personally I congratulate Bowls WA for attempting to introduce a different format for what I consider a pretty tired competition on Thursday’s. However we must remember that the majority of bowlers that do play on a Thursday are in the older age bracket, and they clearly don’t like the concept of sets play. I quite liked the set play format, but it definitely lacked atmosphere, mainly because of not having an aggregate type competition.
Regards to All Bowlers and Keep Safe Jim Stewart
29th April - What extraordinary times we are living in at the moment, Corona virus? And not the one when too many have been had out of the bottle the night before. Social distancing, hand sanitiser and limited loo paper. Unbelievable.
All these would not have been envisaged a few months ago!
These different times have led to a pennant season cut short by one or two qualifying games and finals to play. A very difficult position for the organising body of any sport.
This unprecedented position may lead to unprecedented measures to finish what was a nearly completed season.
The pennant season could be completed in its entirety when the all clear has been given. The qualifying, finals and promotion games to commence as soon as allowed. A revised fixture of events that contribute to other awards (champ of champs, triples etc) would be played; with the bowls wind-up to be held as soon as practicable after these games.
All completed in about 6 weeks. Unavailibility of greens would be a factor here. Some games may have to be played am and pm, with the same rules as outlined in the forum notes being followed regarding players qualification. Synthetic greens could be utilised and shared between clubs.
This completion of the season will most likely lead to a delayed start to next year. If this was to occur, a couple of options may be a later start to the season and a later season (will it really matter if we finish after Easter?) or a revised shorter fixture could occur.
Extraordinary times may mean extraordinary measures need to be taken. I am sure bowlers will understand if changes from the normal are made to finalise the season in a satisfactory manner.
Other topics from the forum agenda to think about during our enforced hibernation.
The new Thursday pennant model was trialled and failed miserably, costing the clubs hundreds of dollars in revenue with the early finish. The format should be scrapped in its entirety. Changes to our pennants need to have positive and quantifiable outcomes before they are introduced.
Ladies Saturday pennant should also play the same number of ends as most other games and an earlier start would help to sort things out. They also need to have a 10 team competition. Manning had 2 teams (a quarter of the field) in top division last season.
This would not be such a problem in a 10 team comp. In fact the rule of clubs having only one team in premier league has caused more problems than has fixed and should also be scrapped.
Trying times all around. As Linda has put to your site. Keep in touch with all your mates and loved ones. Hopefully you keep healthy and we will be out again on the green soon.
Cheers to all. John Goddard
In line with the release of the WA Premiers relaxation of outdoor social gatherings, as from Monday 27April, are BowlsWA going to allow clubs to play bowls social within the then current restrictions
Ian White
I think you'll find activities that require the sharing of sporting equipment is still banned. Bowling clubs could place restrictions on the usage of equipment, ie bring their own or not use them at all, but I reckon us bowlers will just have to sit tight for a week or two more before going on to the greens again.
I think there is a misconception that these restrictions are decided on by Bowls WA, until the judgement comes down from either our Premier or Prime Minister that expressly says we can return to sport, then it's fairly pointless posing scenarions about why we shouldn't be returning.
When we eventually come out the other side of this crisis we can expect that a lot of clubs will be doing it tough financially. We are told that we are almost certainly heading for a recession which could turn into a depression worse than anything any of us have ever experienced.
Perhaps the time is right for club administrators to talk about saving money in any area possible. This could bring us to a subject that none of us want to be the first to raise. How necessary are the sandwiches or other eats after a game of pennants? Why can we not simply have a beer before heading home. Some may argue that it only costs a few bob so why worry about it, but multiply that by your four rinks and then by the number of teams playing at home for the real figure. The actual costs have been escalating over the past few years.
I could stand to be corrected but I am told that it does not happen on the eastern seaboard. So why here?
What are the views?
Ian Edgar
Merriwa.
In reply to Ian Edgar's letter that proposes clubs might cease to present food after pennant games, I would say that this measure would hasten the reduction of active players that has already been a concerning trend in recent years. The two clubs that I have participated for in competition charge around $5 per week to pennant players to cover costs. And it does actually cover the costs of food to my knowledge.
I for one would be reluctant to order two alcoholic drinks to consume with no food to accompany.
It would be seen by many to be mean spirited and probably not as a means for clubs to balance their budget. Sam Frosh
I think that's a good point you raise Sam, it is probably a good responsibility of a club to be serving food at the same time as alcohol.
25th April - The 2019-20 Season was disrupted by two factors:
- Inclement weather causing the cancellation of a number of matches during the season. This is a factor that is an on-going problem which occurs almost every season which has the capacity to adversely affect some Clubs who may play less games during the season than some of their competitors. Some argue that this is merely ‘the luck of the game’, whilst others will argue that games should be ‘postponed’ rather than ‘cancelled’ with the postponed games played on a Friday night , a Sunday, of a ‘free’ Saturday. There are augments against such suggestions – some Clubs may not have adequate facilities for night bowls, Sundays are often committed to State or Club events, there are just not enough Saturdays available in an 18-week season (which could be resolved by having a 14-week season).
- The covid-19 pandemic has led to the decision to cancel the last two rounds of Saturday Pennants, and the last round of Mid-week Pennants, and thrown the determination of Pennants winners, promotions and demotions into chaos.
A proposal to be put to the Presidents Forum is to have ‘automatic’ promotions and demotions (as defined in the current Conditions of Play’). That is, one promotion and one demotion in each Section. For Saturday Pennants, a second promotion/demotion as specified in the Conditions of Play will be played on Saturday 19 September, but there will be no Pennant finals played. However, if this date is not available – for whatever reason – there will be no second promotion/demotion in each Division/Section.
It seems to me to be a futile exercise squeezing in playing the 2019-20 Pennant finals in September, immediately preceding the commencement of the 2020-21 season on greens that a few years ago were not considered adequate to commence the Pennant season before November.
I suggest that Pennants be awarded to those sides which have finished the season on top of their Division (by virtue of the highest points/percentage over other Section winners in the Division). This was the means of determining Pennant winners, promotions and demotions prior to the introduction of finals and challenge play about ten years ago.
I have not looked closely at how the proposed changes would affect the Ladies Pennant competition, but I suggest the current Selectors (both Men’s and Ladies) give careful attention to any such changes and refer any comments to Bowls WA through the Management Committee by the deadline of 15 May 2020 David Scott
20th April - With reference to item 4 of the Agenda for the upcoming Presidents’ Forum it appears that the suggestion from Bowls WA to finalise Saturday Pennants is as follows:
1) All automatic promotions/demotions are honoured, based on the ladder position after round 16.
2) Further promotion/demotion play offs will be held on Saturday 19 September, with no alternative date. So, should it not be possible to play on that date, the 2nd promotion/demotion will not occur.
3) There will be no Pennant Finals played.
If, as suggested Pennant Finals are not played, then there will not be a 2nd promotion from 1 White, and only 1 club will be relegated from Premier Division. This is extremely unfair on the 1 White clubs whose position on the ladder at the end of the season would have given them a chance of promotion through the Pennant Finals. Equally, it is unfair that the side finishing 2nd bottom in Premier League will not be demoted.
I don't think this is quite right but will seek clarification. I read it as being that the normal promotion/demotion system will take place that weekend, which is 2nd plays 3rd in the morning and then will play the challenge game in the afternoon
If promotion/demotion play offs can take place, then why can’t Pennant Finals be played at the same time?
It's a fair question and I'm sure it was discussed. Like you, I can't see why they couldn't, and while we may argue that transfers happen, availability etc, the same rules would apply for the promotion/demotion games. Another letter below about this
My suggestions are:
(1)That Pennant Finals should be played on the weekend of 19/20 September, just as they would have been on 4/5 April, with pennants being awarded, and promotions/relegations settled according to the rules already in place.
(2) Or, if there is a reason that Bowls WA do not wish to play finals on Sunday 20 September, then the following scenarios for each division:
Premier Division – On Saturday (19th) morning the clubs that finished 1-4 on the ladder play off, Doubleview v South Perth, Bassendean v Manning. Winners to play in afternoon for the Pennant. Mosman Park and Warnbro are demoted.
1 White – Automatic promotion awarded to Sorrento. On Saturday morning, play off between Wanneroo (2nd) and Rossmoyne (3rd). Winner promoted to Premier Division, and plays Sorrento in afternoon for the Pennant. Osborne Park (4th) and Kardinya (5th) already have Premier League clubs, and could not be promoted anyway. Demotions as per rules already in place.
1 Blue – Gosnells and Quinns Rock automatically promoted and play off for Pennant, with other promotion and relegation play offs on 19 September, as per current rules.
All other Divisions’ automatic promotions/relegations honoured, with pennant finals and promotion/relegation playoffs conducted on Saturday 19 September per rules already in place.
As an aside, why is the Presidents’ Forum Agenda not placed on the Bowls WA website/ Facebook page? Surely that would be an easy way of keeping all bowlers informed of what is to be discussed, and allow them to give feedback to their club’s representatives, ahead of the meeting.
I know you sent this to me a couple of days ago and I waited until it was posted on the Bowls WA website, so it is there now for general viewing.
Grant Nicol
Not sure what BowlsWA plans are regarding pennant finals, but I for one would be in favour of playing finals.
Obviously as far as the season goes, the home and away portion is finished with the top four settled in all divisions.
I noted that in a recent interview, Ken Pride mentioned that the promotion/challenge games would be played on a weekend in September, not sure of the exact date, but if that is the case why cant all teams qualified for finals also play their finals that same weekend.
I believe most players would be in favour of it, would be interested to see what others players thoughts are.
We play the whole season to qualify for finals so if the current situation around the world with Covid-19 allows for it, I believe it would be the right way to end the season.
Anyway, just wanted to share with you my thoughts and maybe get a poll up and going to see what other players think.
Cheers Gavin Faulkner
Tend to agree with you Gav, not sure why the pennant finals could not be considered to be played that weekend. Perhaps every year we could have a Charity Shield similar to the English soccer, where we have the Top 4 from the previous year play 2 knockout games 1v4 and 2v3, with the winners to play each other for the shield and encourage those not playing to come along and make the day a big charity fundraising appeal like we had so successfully at South Perth this year.
13th April - Just to throw another spanner into works. what are your, and others, thoughts on making Thursday pennants open gender? so no restrictions on gender, including positions they can play.
regards Bob Jones
Actually Bob I really like the idea. In this era of gender equality we have one of the few sports where men and women can compete equally against each other. I don't see any reason why we can't have a system of competition of Saturday being Mens Pennants, Tuesday being Ladies Pennants, and Midweek being Open Pennants. Many other states now have their Open Pennants on Saturday, must admit I like my Saturday competition being men only, but I also enjoy playing with and against the ladies in carnivals and the like, so why not have a pennant competition that all of our sexes can play in.
14th April - If we go mid week any gender i can say this will be end of mid week pennants ps dont no what you mean about other sports with ladies and gents playing together ? Golf no football no cricket no rugby no soccer no, i just think this is not the solution.
Bill Owen
19th April - In response to Bill's letter, I don't know why you are comparing other sports. Under the Federal Sex Discrimination Act certain sports qualify for the exception in the case where " strength, stamina and physique of the competitors is relevant to the outcome". Courts and tribunals have ruled that strength, stamina and physique is irrelevant to the outcome of lawn bowls competitions, and therefore lawn bowls does not qualify for any exception in relation to sex discrimination laws.
I don't understand what your problem with allowing open gender is?
At a time when many clubs struggle to get enough bowlers to fill sides each week, surely any strategy that boosts numbers is a positive thing?
Selection would be no different to how it is now, you would still have to be good enough to get into the side.
Surely you want the best players you have for each team in each division, to give your club the best chance of winning?
To state that open gender would be the end of midweek pennants is a big claim to make without giving any reasons or facts to back it up.
Other states already have open gender pennants, so why do you think WA should be any different?
Change in any form may be uncomfortable for some at first but if it means the difference between our sport surviving into the future or not, surely it's worth it.
Bob Jones
In my opinion, the ladies should play their Tuesday bowls on Thursday prior to the men’s Thursday pennants. If the ladies started at 9.30 roll up 9.15 they could finish by 1 & then the men continue to play there games. Benefits (1) the ladies would be playing on better & quicker greens, because the green keeper has two extra days to prepare. (2) I don’t know how many times I have heard the ladies complaining re the greens on Tuesday are slow . (3) I believe the green keepers would be wrapped to have extra days to prepare there greens. Re any Gender for Thursday please give some thought to some of the older clubs that only have 1 women’s team, playing currently on Tuesday pennants, championship (club) on Wednesday & there is also a Friday night ladies competition. Thank you only my opinion
Roger Barns
Yeah thats also not a bad idea, but it's gonna need a big radical shift in thinking from the ladies. It does mean we are expecting the ladies to make big changes to their comp, ie change to Thursdays or Saturday mornings but you are right in that there are more positives to be had with them changing.
With your second point about open competition, as it stands with Ladies playing Tuesday, Friday and Saturday if Thursday became open gender then like all pennants it is optional to compete in it. If they find the grind too much with club comps on Wednesdays then they don't play Thursdays.
5th April - Kardinya Bowling Club conducted an end-of-season survey regarding the match-day format for midweek bowls. Not surprisingly, bowlers gave the sets-play format a big thumbs down. A staggering 76% of them indicated that they wouldn’t play midweek bowls next season if the same format was repeated. See below the full survey results, which will be forwarded on to Bowls WA. In my opinion, probably the most disappointing thing about the sets-play experiment for midweek metropolitan men’s pennants was the lack of widespread consultation among players beforehand.
As we ride out the Covid-19 crisis, I wonder how many clubs will struggle, if not fold, when the bowling industry emerges on the other side of this current pandemic. I’m thinking mainly about clubs that still have to pay for greenskeepers while their income has been severely curtailed by clubhouse and bar closures. Remember that grass continues to grow during these lay-off periods and greens still need to be cut and renovated. Hopefully the Federal Government’s stimulus package will help mitigate financial stress for those bowling clubs with ongoing wages bills.
Kardinya seems to be on track with plans to replace its A Green (the one in front of the clubhouse) in coming weeks. Contractors have assured the club that its workforce is still intact, and that they are ready, willing and able to install a new sand-filled synthetic green as soon as the product arrives (scheduled for late April). Once that happens, work on installation of the new replacement green will begin right away. Product for the new Kardinya green is the same type and colour as the one at North Beach.
The results of the survey sent to all midweek pennant playing members is as follows:
1. OPTION 1. 2x 9 end sets plus 3 end tie break. NIL
2. OPTION 2. 2x9 end sets with no tie break. NIL
3. OPTION 3. 18 ends aggregate score for rink and team points. 52%
4. OPTION 4. 21 ends aggregate score for rink and team points. 48%
On the question of preferred start time, we had suggestions from 12 noon through to 6pm(under lights). In the final analysis 52% preferred 1.30 pm start.
On the question of whether you would play next season if the current sets play format was to continue, 24% answered yes, 76% answered no.
Cheers, John Terrell 27th March - Let's end the debate on a format that was quite disastrous, it won't be back so there is no need for a gabfest on the subject.
How about we seek out a format that would/may be popular. The traditional 21 ends can be dull, I was thinking about this very briefly the other day.
How about a 9 person team playing 4's, triples and pairs? ends to be played? How about 4's @ 17 ends, 3's @ 19 ends and pairs 3 bowls straight @ 19 ends. Go back to the 1:30pm rollup.
With nine players, maximum cars for travelling from the Club would be 2, as quite a few go direct from work, often probably only one car required.
the 9 person format would make it very competitive at the top and smaller clubs with a top division around 1 Blue or White will be able to compete well against larger clubs 2nd side.
From week to week selectors can get creative (good luck boys!) and switch players from one discipline to another. The pairs would be great match practice for Saturdays with a leader having 3 bowls and the Skip a little more scope to play attacking the head. I think newer bowlers would certainly find it more entertaining.
Just an idea anyway, I was scathing at the start of last season so here's my idea to improve things. Happy for criticism's constructive or otherwise.
Keep well people. Nifty
I asked Nifty how the aggregate would work, as this would seem to have been the biggest hurdle faced by midweek this year
3rd April - Points could be 2 - 2 - 2 and 4 for the Agg. Could play an extra end for draws so no ties.
What do people think of this? My initial thought on the aggregate would be the fours play 17 ends and 136 bowls, the Triples and Pairs play 19 ends and 114 bowls each team. Is the equal aggregate fair then, the pairs and triples players play more bowls, so do you have to juggle people around to give them an opportunity at each discipline? It seems to me to be even more mickey mouse than the sets play which is currently the rules, which I think will be disbanded anyway. Aggregate will only work if all players are playing the same discipline over the same ends. But love the outside of the box thinking, I think something different in Midweek is great, it just creates a different style of competition that we can play competitively, outside of the standard 21 ends Fours competition.
25th March - Here are results from our member survey regarding the Thursday Pennant format. We have sent the results to Bowls WA with a covering letter but thought it would be a good talking point during this period of no bowls.
---------------------------
We asked our Members to answer several questions and to comment on their perception of the current format.
Our Members were asked; Question 1. Are you in favour of the new Thursday Pennant format? Question 2. Did you choose not to play this year because of the new format? Question 3. If you answered NO to question 1, summarise what you don’t like about the format Question 4. If Bowls WA reverted back to the old format, would you be prepared to -
a) Reduce the number of ends to 18
b) Re spot the jack on dead ends Question 5. If Bowls WA maintained their position on the new Thursday format for next year’s season, would you play?
Our Club has 72 positions for Thursday Pennants and we had 68 Members respond to the survey.
As the responses to questions 1 and 5 illustrate, our Members were overwhelmingly against the current Thursday Pennant format.
Results are as follows;
Question 1 No = 97% Yes = 3%
Question 2 No = 90% Yes = 10%
Question 3
Responses to Question 3 were predominantly concerned that there is no longer an aggregate and therefore, no team participation across the 3 rinks. The perception is that it is no longer a team game but rather a rink game that is anti-social and counter to the spirit of Pennant competition.
The team who plays the best does not necessarily win the match. A rink can win set1 by 10 shots; lose set 2 by 1 shot; lose the tie break by 1 shot; be 8 shots up overall and lose the game.
The sets play format sees some rinks finishing up to an hour before others, with earlier finishers leaving to go home before completion of the other rinks. This leads to a disjointed fellowship experience for players and impacts on the drawing of raffles and bar sales.
The concept of time saving with this format was one of the prime reasons for the change, however, it does not seem to have come to fruition.
Question 4a No = 43% Yes = 57%
Question 4b No = 35% Yes = 65%
Question 5 No = 59% Yes = 28% Undecided = 13%
The initiative to try something different on Thursdays was appropriate and commendable, however, theresponse to our survey and the feedback we are hearing from visiting players tells us that the players think the format is inappropriate for Pennant competition.
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Regards
Jim Newton
Leeming Bowling Club
Thanks Jim for the survey results. Another bowler has sent to me a similar list of question which i have created on Survey Monkey which I will release soon for other readers of Bowls 360 to comment on.
The more the season has progressed and the more I hear about the aggregate not being a factor the more it has annoyed me. There are 12 points on offer every game, so what there is no aggregate! Aren't other rinks interested in supporting those rinks still playing even when they have finished? The tiebreaker carries 2 points to the victor, that goes towards the "team" points and a higher position on the ladder. Why would you be going home and not supporting your fellow teammates in achieving the 2 points? I don't understand. It's still a team game, it's still your club playing for 4 points each rink. I would even suggest it is more important to support your teammates on other rinks because there are more points on offer to win
In fact if you look at the ladders in each grade, the difference between first and last is quite close, considering there were 12 points on offer every week, last year was 6. All 1st division midweek ladders are about 60 points between 1st and last, so with 12 points on offer it's about 5 points per point earned (I hope that makes sense). In Saturday pennants for example there are 8 points on offer every game. In PL it is 7 points difference betweeen first and last per point earned, in 1 white even more pronounced, 10 points. Blue North is 7 and Blue South is 10. What this shows is that the competition is much more even in Midweek because of sets play. Isn't this better for the teams and players playing in it? I wish I had access to ladder from last year as I bet we would find the difference between first and last to be more than this year. Wouldn't the players in clubs that are struggling look forward to a competition where if they get belted in the 1st set, still have the chance to win the game? You say there were examples of teams winning by 10, losing by 1 and then losing the tiebreak is a bad thing. It's a good thing if you lose by 10, win by 1 and then win the tiebreak. I'd be staggered if there was 1 player where they didn't experience both sides of this coin this season.
In hindsight they should not have showed wins and losses because it was inconsequential to the ladder. It really didn't matter if you got more shots than the opposition, that wasn't the way Midweek worked this year, and I think bowlers were either unwilling or unable to cope with the change in style. For what it's worth I enjoyed the change in style, we have played aggregate for ever, we play ends up apart from singles in every carnival. It's a shame we won't see it again as it was something new and different.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26th March - Dear Sir Just a few points if I may regarding mid week bowls.
First of all, your obvious support of the new format has allowed you to take some liberties with facts..
“All Carnivals are ends up” !?! Excuse me !!
Outside of the PBA, State Mixed Pairs, Masters Mixed Pairs and Indoors, which are all state events, all club carnivals are played over a certain number of ends aren’t they? Happy to be told of a carnival that isn't.
Secondly, during conversations with fellow bowlers during this bastardised & now abbreviated season, I have yet to meet anyone whose opinion was sought prior to the adoption of a format that is obviously & almost universally detested.
Secondly, this has been addressed on numerous occasions so I will highlight to you again. In order for changes to be made to our bowls, the matter is discussed at the Presidents Forum, and then ratified at the AGM. If you as an individual didn't know about it, then consult with your clubs committee as they were notified. I am part of my clubs committee, we posed the question to our bowlers about what was being proposed and asked for feedback. If your club didn't do this then it's on your club, not Bowls WA
Perhaps those who play the game might be consulted in future regarding any changes to the format.
So every change they want to enact needs to voted on by every single bowler? A logistical impossibility.
After all, if the many thousands who play it have less say than the few who control it,( bearing in mind that very few watch it ) it is ultimately doomed.
With this theory every sport is doomed. Do you think the club cricketer is consulted with every law change? If you aren’t happy with the direction that Bowls WA are taking, it’s an easy process to volunteer to be on a committee and ensure that are held to account in your eyes.
And finally, you opine that “To lose by 10, win by 1 & then win the tie break is good for those who win”
No it isn’t, it’s absurd & ultimately it is bad for the game.
Whether one benefits from, or is disadvantaged by the absurd, it is still absurd..
No problems, I don’t find it absurd, surely our plans is to win a game of bowl, if you play to have a bit of fun on a Thursday afternoon, maybe someone needs to start a social bowls gathering at your club? Last time I looked nearly competition we play in, even corporate bowls, there is a winner and a loser and occasionally a draw. I don’t know anyone who just plays for 2 hours and then goes inside for a beer without keeping track of the score, unless you are practicing.
Regards
Graham ( formerly known as glass half empty ) Archell.
I notice you didn’t comment on the positives of the format that I opined about. Isn’t an even competition good for bowls?
27th March - 1/ I think your definition of *ends up* differs from mine.
Carnival victors are determined by the number of games won in a *shots up* format are they not.
If the victors were determined by *ends up* & everybody played the same number of ends wouldn’t everyone be declared the winner ?
Probably right, I was meaning more shots up played over a defined number of ends, it is essentially the same. Sets play needs shots to win, but that's all you have to do is win the set and it doesn;t matter if you win the set by 1 or 10, all you have to do is win the set. Ends and shots don't matter like it does everywhere else is my point.
2/ I find it difficult to believe that all of those I conversed with during the season, and they were legion, had been advised of the changes, supported them & then discovered they didn’t like them after all, and further that all clubs had been asked to comment & the majority supported the changes. ( BTW what was the majority feedback of your midweek members prior to implementation? )
Quite obviously all bowlers weren't advised of the change, but you can't expect Bowls WA to consult all bowlers. There is a process that all CLUBS were consulted.
3/ I did NOT suggest *every single bowler* be consulted *on every single change* so I’ll respond no further to that daft comment
You said "those who play the game", isn't that everyone?
4/ Of course players are consulted prior to significant changes to the sport they play.
To suggest otherwise shows remarkable ignorance of other sports.
Players were consulted in this process as well, as mentioned numerous times earlier
5/ You contradict yourself & highlight the major problem of the changes when suggesting we should all support the last team playing in the quest to win.
We don’t because, most times, the game has already been decided due to the failing of the format & the aggregate no longer being of any interest.
The result of your rink has been decided but not theirs. They are still playing for 2 points that your team will be benefitting from. And they are your friends and teammates. If you don't want to support them then that's on you, not on the format of the competition.
6/ I didn’t mention the positives because, quite frankly, apart from the extended practice time which was subsequently not allowed, there weren’t any.
I remain yours in half empty state Graham Archell27th March - I read with interest the letters about Thursday pennants. Having played this entire season, and garnered plenty of opinions as well as my own. I can only think that while the change in format was worth a go, a business mantra comes to mind: if you try to tell your customers what they want, instead of giving them what they want, you will not go far.
My experience is that the changes are almost unanimously disliked for several reasons. Probably the biggest is no link between the rinks that an aggregate provides, maybe some way of adjusting this while keeping sets format may make it palatable, such as having the total of the sets contributing to an aggregate while still enabling possible tiebreaks for rink wins. This would also stop the situation of playing out a set for nothing other than shots up % which has happened quite a bit.
I hope you have a good response to your survey and will be interested to see the results.
Regards Paul Knight
Thanks Paul. I think we can safely say sets play will not proceed next year and will revert back to a shots format. Whether it's the same as Saturday is yet to be seen. Aggregate in sets play whether it's ends or shots won't work as you have the same problem - you don't know during the game what state of play you are in at any given time. You could calculate everything at the end of the game who has won or lost the agg but it's really immaterial. Sets play is based around winning the set only and nothing else
23rd March - Hi. I am a bit concerned after reading the West Australian bowls results in today’s paper with a number of clubs still having bowls being played at their venue. I am sure that bowls wa sent out a message for all clubs to forgo any playing of bowls inc social bowls due to the virus. Is this correct?
Regards Trevor Thompson ( playing member of the Willetton bowling club)
All Bowls WA can do is recommend they stop, ultimately it is up to the individual and the club whether they choose to do this. Like you I'm staggered if clubs are continuing to do this, especially now that the clubs have to be shut.
18th March - There must be loads of speculation as to how Bowls WA will conclude the currently suspended Pennant competition.
I would like to suggest that BWA adopt the same principle as is used in actual pennant games - i.e. if 56 ends are not completed due to adverse weather etc, the game is drawn. If 57 ends are complete, then the game is deemed to be complete, and a result is effected.
I believe the same could be applied to this or any season - i.e. if say, 14 games have been completed and the season is halted due to the Covid-19 Virus, then the ladder positions should stand, and all play-offs for promotion be decided by overall points/percentage, or what ever method they choose to use Just pointing out, I am a little bias as my team sits 9 points clear at the top of First Blue South, but it is in my humble opinion, a viable and fair solution.
I would be interested in other readers opinions.
Cheers, Dave Bradbury
16th March - My take on the Covid-19 virus and the potential closure of our pennant season.
Surely common sense will prevail and we will be allowed to finish our pennant season.
There are measures we all can take to protest ourselves and others from spreading the virus. Use correct hand washing and self hygiene, rather than shake hands with teammates and opponents a simple acknowledgement or fist bump reduces the risk substantially and of course if anyone is feeling unwell them stay home.
As we are a low spectator sport the risk is minimal. Club members will still socialise at their clubs, club events will more than likely still be played,
Of the 1 million + population of Perth, there has been 28 confirmed cases and the majority of those have been travellers. I just dont see that there is any reason to panic.
I realise my opinions may be in the minority, however if we all use common sense and are aware of the risks then the season can play out and Bowls WA can re-assess in the coming weeks.
Gavin Faulkner
A sensible approach i think, would be to play the remainder of games and encourage no handshakes/contact. If people feel unwell ie sore throat runny nose etc then be respectful to others and do not attend your or other club.If bowlswa do cancel games then allot 4 points to each team per game, then the season isnt wasted.
Cheers Roger Thomas
12th March - I just received an email from my club (Kardinya) with information about COVID 19 from BA (via Aaron Delaporte)
I am a great proponent of the fellowship aspect of our game , between teammates & opponents alike , but I guess as this disease spreads we have to question the advisability of handshaking , handing bowls to teammates & opponents & high fives because of hand hygiene
I am interested in the opinions of others in our bowls community
Cheers Steve Back
For those that have not yet seen the email from Bowls WA, below is a copy -
Club Executives,
Please find below information from Bowls Australia CEO, Neil Dalrymple. Bowls WA continues to take advice from Bowls Australia and relevant government agencies for any future actions. Should clubs wish to take their own specific actions (ie no handshaking) it is recommended announcements be made pre-game to avoid embarrassment. From Neil Dalrymple CEO Bowls Australia
See below our latest advice which can be published or circulated to any members of the Australian Bowls community. Further updates will be provided when more information is received from the applicable agencies. Coronavirus (COVID-19): Advice to Australian Bowls Community
Coronavirus (COVID-19) is increasingly having an impact on the global community and is a rapidly evolving issue.
Government organisations, public health units and the World Health Organisation (WHO) continue to provide accurate, timely and detailed updates relevant to the whole community.
This communication is intended to provide an overview of the currently available information related to the virus and what measures and precautions members of the Australian bowls community should put in place.
This advice has prepared from the Australian Institute of Sport (AIS) and the Department of Health (Federal Government).
(Updated: March 11, 2020)
• Coronavirus impact on upcoming national and international events (Updated: March 5, 2020) What is COVID-19?
COVID-19 is a respiratory illness caused by a new virus. Symptoms range from a mild cough to pneumonia. Some people recover easily, others may get very sick very quickly. There is evidence that it spreads from person to person. Good hygiene can prevent infection.
COVID-19 was first reported in December 2019 in Wuhan City in China.
The most common symptoms are fever, cough and shortness of breath. It can be difficult to tell the difference between COVID-19 and other common respiratory illness particularly in the early stages of illness. Individuals should consult with their doctor by calling ahead. The doctor can take a thorough history, including travel history, perform a physical exam and make a recommendation regarding testing for COVID-19. How unwell does COVID-19 make you?
COVID-19 results in a spectrum of illness ranging from possible asymptomatic carriage, common cold to severe cases requiring hospital admission. In a small minority of cases, COVID-19 can be fatal. How contagious is COVID-19 and how does it spread?
Analysis of the number of cases from the Diamond Princess suggests that COVID-19 is more contagious than seasonal influenza.
This can change based on the circumstances the outbreak is occurring in and it is expected this will be refined over time as more is known.
The virus is transmitted primarily through respiratory droplets. There is ongoing research to determine if there are other possible modes of transmission such as faecal or through the air. How do I reduce my risk of getting COVID-19?
Hand hygiene remains the single best action individuals can take to reduce their risk of acquiring any respiratory or gastrointestinal tract infection. While COVID-19 is a global concern the number of cases of influenza globally far outweighs the number of COVID-19 as reported on the Global Influenza Surveillance and Response System (GISRS). Annual influenza vaccination remains an important infection prevention measure.
You should be vigilant with frequent hand washing using soap and water or an alcohol-based hand rub. Make sure you adhere to 'illness etiquette'. If you are coughing and sneezing, do so away from people into a tissue, your elbow or hands. If you cough or sneeze into your hands, make sure you wash your hands afterwards. Seek medical review early if you are feeling unwell. Should I restrict my physical activity?
The risk of becoming unwell with COVID-19 without a history of travel to countries listed by the Communicable Diseases Network Australia (CDNA) in the last 14 days is very low. As a result, there are no current restrictions on Australians participating in or attending sporting or large public events.
What specific challenges do bowlers need to consider when evaluating infection transmission in higher risk environments (pennant, competitions, events, etc.)?
• In a team environment, there will be increased proximity and duration of physical contact that can facilitate the transmission of respiratory and gastrointestinal pathogens. Research in respiratory infections in travelling sporting teams suggests that the most likely pattern of spread occurs from within a team, rather than from external sources.
• Close physical contact with an opponent may expose a player to risk. For example, tennis has effectively no contact between opponents. Combat sports, however, may involve significant close contact for minutes at a time. Risks related to bowls include picking up teammates or opponents bowls, shaking hands, etc.
• Size and proximity of crowds attending the event. Any mass gathering represents an increased opportunity for infection spread. WHO has produced a document outlining the Key Considerations.
• There is no need to alter your exercise or training if you are feeling well.
• There is no need to wear a mask in public if you are well.
• If you become unwell prior to travel, it is recommended that you organise a review with your GP prior to travel, to ensure it is medically safe to travel.
• If you become unwell and are due to play or train, it is recommended that you do not attend training or competition, and organise a review with your GP to ensure it is safe to train and minimise infectious spread
Keep up to date with developments!!
In response to you Steve, I think it would be advisable for a few weeks to not shake hands, maybe a pat on the back instead? You still want to display good will to your opponent before and afterwards but hand contact seems to be a way to transfer the virus, but more importantly then moving your hand to your mouth is the critical factor.
There has been a great deal of mis-information talked about the Ashley Sharp/Justin Opie situation last weekend – time to state some facts.
South Perth and Doubleview sought to alter their fixture from Saturday to Friday night – noting that this is a requirement before the season commences, the clubs put forward a reasonable argument and it was approved on the 20th November. Ashley Sharp and subsequently Justin Opie were unavailable for that Friday fixture due to work and a family commitment respectively.
Each were selected in the South Perth 1 White side for the Saturday fixture vs Osborne Park.
The sides were published on this site and as a result there was a query initiated from the Bowls WA office; in the interim an Osborne Park representative made a further “unofficial” query on the same matter. The facts were obtained from South Perth and forwarded to the Fixtures & Events Committee for a determination on their “eligibility”. The committee voted (4 not play), 1 (play but not as skippers) and 1 (separate the players for potential differing outcomes), 1 member did not vote.
That decision was communicated to South Perth.
South Perth decided to play Sharp and Opie in spite of the F&E decision and Appeal it under (Rule 18 – Pg 17) of the BWA Handbook. Bowls WA through the F&E committee did not change its decision as some say on Saturday, but South Perth noted there was no point in not playing them and then Appealing. Hence they played.
The Appeal will be heard on Monday morning by the Bowls Management Committee as required, where they will decide on the points and percentage allocation from the game. Ken Pride
CEO Bowls WA
Unless I am misreading the situation with Justin Opie and Ash Sharp, then I believe the common sense, pub test, scenario should apply. Both of these guys should have been allowed to play, after all, isn’t that the idea, to encourage players to play bowls. Two fine bowlers who had done nothing wrong, and neither had their club for that matter.
The sub committee that made this decision, perhaps need to think again.
Regards Jim Stewart
13th March 2020 - Let me first say that Bowls WA decision on the whole sharpiegate was a total farce. They have set precedence, that NO PREMIER LEAGUE PLAYER FOR WHATEVER REASON CAN BE DROPPED to the clubs second side which in South Perth's case mind you is the second strongest league in WA Metro!!.
So does that mean if you cant play that week then your not allowed to get dropped to the second side of your club, does that mean if I have work or family commitments and cant drive all the way to Warnbro to play as I have work straight after pennant that I shouldn't play this week in the clubs second side??? Really Bowls WA, no wonder the sport is dying.
Here's a couple of reasons why Bowls WA should take a long hard look at yourself and the decision you have made;
Bruce Eagles Sorrento played ALL of last season in PL as a skipper and bowl extremely well. State over 60's pairs winner STATE! Has played 12 games in Sorrento's second side in DIVISION 2 Sect 3 as a skipper won 10 games and only lost 2 with a plus nearly 100 shots up. The side has won 15 straight and are 105 points already which Bruce has help win 12 out of 15 games unsure as to why he has missed 3 games. But more importantly DIVISION 2 not 1 White.
Neil Bolton Cambridge been a fixture in the top side the last couple of seasons still in the top side at Cambridge PL. Pretty handy PREMIER LEAGUE bowler, RD 9 played as a skipper and the Cambridge side won Division 2 Sect 4, irrelevant that his rink lost they still took 6 points away. But more importantly DIVISION 2 not 1 White.
I have played in the top side and the second side at my Club and our club is in Division 2 against one of the players mentioned above does that mean Bowls WA is going to take the 12 games off Sorrento that Bruce has played in or the 6 Points off Cambridge as a PL player played in the side for 1 week for whatever reason???
What is Bowls WA telling me that Bruce and Neil are Crap Bowlers and mean nothing in comparison to Justin and Ash. They didnt just go to one white they went to Divison 2 4 levels below PL
What about the other 18 teams in DIVISION 2 that play Sorrento and Cambridge. Are there needs any less than Osborne Park's, are they worth less because they aren't in Premier League or 1 White. We are the people that pay the fees that help in the survival of this sport and play the game because we enjoy it and love it. But when we are being treated unfairly or not equal then something needs to be said.
Shame on you Osborne Park for making a compliant and Shame, Shame, Shame on you Bowls WA for clearly only caring about Premier League and 1 White the feeder league to PL.
What about the 288 players not in those 2 Divison 2 sides and the countless players that have filled in those 2 sections for the 18 clubs. Now that your decision has set a precedent in Sharpiegate why isn't someone at Bowls WA going thru player lists and rectifying all the points and notifying clubs of the loss of points??? I'm sure these 2 players are not the only ones.
Ohhh I forgot we are not in Premier League or 1 white! Divison 2 and all of the lower division clubs means nothing.
Shame on you Bowls WA.
Kind Regards
Sean
I think this letter seems to sum up the misconceptions about what happened with Ash Sharp and Justin Opie, and the letter above from Ken Pride outlines it quite clearly. Osborne Park DID NOT send a letter to Bowls WA, and no official complaint was made. The rules that were in place at the time (and have since been altered) meant that these players were not permitted to play in a lower division. Common sense since has prevailed as detailed in an email sent from Bowls WA to all clubs in February that a slight change in the Integrity Rule had taken place, whereby if a club has a game altered days (like South Perth and others on a Friday night) and a player cannot take his or her place in that team due to legitimate reasons such as work amongst others, then they can play lower down. Hence Ash Sharp playing last weekend in White will not be reviewed because the rules were followed.
For Bruce Eagles, he started the year with some serious health issues and could not play and since returning has taken his place in a lower side as he finds his form and strength. Not sure about Neil and the circumstances there, but people do fall out of form, get dropped, find form, get promoted again. You can't label a player as a "Premier League" player and then if they lose form then they can't play bowls anywhere.
Finally I doubt anyone would agree with you that Bowls WA cares only about higher division players. If that was the case they wouldn't have a heat rule in place which primarily is in place to look after our older players in the game. There is a process in place for clubs to lodge disputes about any game. If your club feels hard done by the selection of players in a game against your club, then you can lodge the protest and have the details heard. I think it is unrealistic for people at Bowls WA to trawl through every single player after every single round and ensure they are playing at a level commensurate with their playing ability.
14th March - Shame on you Sean Whozewhatsit, you failed to research before your long winded opinion.
Please refer to the letter from Ken Pride BowlsWA CEO. FYI, never at any point in time did Osborne Park make any written or formal complaint.
Neville Stevens
I had the pleasure of playing in the Willetton Twilight Fours on Friday 24 January 2020 and just wanted to share how well the club conducted the tournament. I was blown away at how far the club has come since I last played there about 9 years ago.
The evening was 2 games of 13 ends with $1000 bucks up for grabs for the winners and entry fee was only $60 a team. Impressively the entry included roast beef and gravy rolls and the salad bar.
The club has clearly turned a corner from its days spent in a demountable building, they have put in two fantastic sand filled synthetics (the one I played on easily ran 16.5 seconds) and the general atmosphere of the club was fantastic.
The volunteers were exceptional and you can clearly see that there board and management team have put a lot of effort in which I think deserves to be acknowledged.
I encourage anyone looking for a game to get down to Willetton when they run another tournament as I can promise you, you will not be disappointed.
You can see that the membership base they have are passionate about their club and talking to Miles Kemp who is a past member there, that passion clearly never leaves as he was speaking so highly of what the club is doing.
Kind regards, Cody Packer
Hi Simon, Wow....anyone witnessing the scene at Sorrento Bowling Club over the weekend would, I would venture to say, have had to be impressed. The 2 days of Pairs Finals was not only full of sensational skills, fantastic sportsmanship, and terrific camaraderie, but was in my mind an incredible advert for our great game. It is easy as a bowler of now 50 years vintage to reflect on performances and the performers I have witnessed over these years and I must admit that it is often discussed at length the 'way it was' by our 'vets' in the game when we cross paths. And so it should be. Anybody involved in the 80's/ 90's in this state were witness to some incredible lawn bowling skills and absolute masters of the game were on display. It has also been questioned whether those 'heady heights' could ever be reached again.
Well fear not.....the young (and possibly not so young) stars of our current group of local bowlers were on display over the weekend and they were awesome.
I am of course aware there are others who also possess these skills and who didn't get the opportunity to showcase it in the pairs finals, but those that were competing on the weekend have shown to all present that the games future in this state is clearly alive and in very good hands indeed.
Congratulations to all of you who were involved as I believe you are serving as wonderful advocates for our great game of lawn bowls.
Cheers Chris Lander.
This was sent to Bowls WA and to here
10th November - Dear Mr Pride
I wish to lodge my personal objection to the format for men’s midweek pennant competition, the earlier start time and the pre-game roll up.
None of these changes are an improvement to my enjoyment of the game, in fact it is the exact opposite. Many of my team mates are of the same opinion and I believe we are the silent majority. I understand a number of clubs are considering or have elected to withdraw from the completion on the basis of their players not wishing to be involved in this format of the game. This will cause byes and further reduce my and others enjoyment.
This format is extremely unpopular. It may well be the format that is played at Commonwealth Games and other professional level competitions, but we, the majority, don’t presume nor wish to emulate those who attain such standards and high performance. Our reason for participation are completely different; 3 to 4 hours on a Thursday afternoon, team environment, serious but friendly competition followed by an hour or so of convivial socializing. Just two weeks in and our rink on both days off a little after two hours of play. It hardly seems worthwhile.
I respectfully request you and your board review the rules and conditions for the men’s midweek competition with a view of returning to the previous format for the commencement of the second round of fixtures commencing Thursday 16th January 2020. I’m not fully cognisant of the motivation or reason for the change, but notwithstanding I am cognisant of the effect and implications, both of which are in my opinion extremely detrimental to the sport and will further erode participating numbers of club memberships and players. I emphasise that this opinion and request is mine personally and not of the club to which I belong or play for. As stated though, I believe I am part of the vast majority and also that your board has an obligation to administer for the benefit of all.
Yours for the good of the game. Brett Owen
10th November - I would like to add my thoughts to the discussion on midweek changes this season.
Our club had 3 practice games under the new Thursday format with mostly positive feedback. We just completed our first Thursday pennant game (first week washed out), and personally, I really enjoyed the changes and different strategies that are needed under the new conditions of play. In fact, the midweek changes were the reason that I decided to play Thursday pennants this season.
The only minor issue I can see with the new set play format is that 2 rinks can finish playing and another rink may have 2 ends and a tie break to go. In saying that, I have played many pennant games when all rinks have finished but I still had 4 or 5 ends to complete the game. So that scenario can happen in both pennant formats. In fact, it happened in our game Saturday. The last rink on had 4 ends to play and was fighting for the aggregate. We had 2 rounds of drinks before they finished!
I have played some Thursday games over the last few years purely as practice for Saturday. During that time, I have witnessed a more “carnival atmosphere “ which I have not witnessed on Saturday games. For myself, I play my serious pennants on Saturday and treat Thursday as practice. Before anyone thinks I am not trying for my team on Thursday, I still play to win all games. My question to players that dislike the new format would be, why does Thursday have to be the same as Saturday?
Bowls competitions consist of many formats. The PBA World Bowls Tour play singles and pairs set play, the BPL is triples set play. I don’t like 3 x 3 pairs, but I still play in competitions that have that format because I love bowls. I spoke to a player last week who thinks we should still play 25 ends and have afternoon tea at the half way mark. He still plays bowls, that format is just his preferred way.
Some of the arguments that are being espoused about the changes remind me of the debate over test cricket and 50 over cricket back in the day. There are now 3 formats of cricket that are accepted by players and spectators alike. There are hybrid games in most sports today with different rules and scoring. We must stop trying to compare apples with pears.
I would like to congratulate BowlsWA for trying something different.
Regards Peter Wachmer 8th November - At the start of the season I was looking forward to the new Thursday format.
Sorry, we have given it a go and I think it needs to be rescued fast. I think if we see out the season a lot of harm will be done. Immediate action is required.
Ian Edgar
7th November - I appreciate and understand as a former Board member of BWA the amount of thought and work that goes on behind the scenes as they develop new methods to arrest the declining numbers playing Metro pennants.
However, I can't reconcile the fact that in last weeks game against another Sorrento team we outscored them 74-38 with the final result a 6-6 all draw.
The new format (which is perfectly adaptable for singles) encourages players to play what I call "Carnival shots". That is, you play only for your own rink to win by as many as you can safe in the knowledge that you are not letting other team members down. On the other hand when you play "Pennant shots" you are much more circumspect because if it goes wrong you have a negative influence on the other 12 players in the team.
I think the majority of people that play pennants enjoy the fact it is a team game and you can still influence an aggregate in a losing team. In fact I have seen losing teams celebrated much more than winning teams because of their efforts late in games. In my humble opinion the new format does not bring that.
Of more concern is (in my club at least) is the number of bowlers who have withdrawn from Thursday's citing the new format and those positions have not been replaced by new bowlers.
I hope I am wrong and players fall in love with the format but I am just not feeling or seeing it.
Kindest Regards, Tim Murray
In response to Mr Tim Murray. Dear Sir To score twice as many points as the opposition & then complain about the result being declared a draw would apparently make you a ‘glass half empty’ kind of guy who, should you have partaken of a compensatory beer following the bizarre proceedings, the missus would be much better off without.
Yours in dumbfoundery Graham Archell
30th October - From our sports correspondent Hot on the heels of the unqualified success of & surge in crowd attendance at Midweek Pennants as a result of rules changes other major sporting codes have adopted a similar format with the following very real possibilities -
1st QTR 2nd QTR 3rd QTR. 4th QTR
EAGLES 6:5. 8:9. 2:2. 2:5
DOCKERS 0:2. 0:1 2:3. 3:0
AGGREGATE
EAGLES 129
DOCKERS. 36
DOCKERS WIN BY VIRTUE OF GOLDEN POINT IN OVERTIME FOLLOWING GAME TIED AT 2 QUARTERS EACH.
REALLY .......!!!!
PERTH GLORY coast after knocking in 6 in the first half against a hapless Melbourne Victory who score an injury time consolation goal.
One half each & Victory win penalty shootout REALLY...........!!!
TIGER SHOOTS 62 63 68 69
RORY SHOOTS. 74 76 67 68
RORY declared Open champion after winning one hole play off following scores level at 2 days each REALLY..........!!!
LOOK on the bright side, with the earlier start everyone got home in time for tea with the Missus.
REALLY..........!!!
Graeme Archell
Obviously Graeme you are a glass half empty kind of person. If you are a glass half full person, you would see that from a Dockers, Victory or Rory perspective, they are loving the change in format! And if you don't love spending time with your missus then maybe she is with the wrong person...
And as someone pointed out to me today, plenty of sports have sets play. Imagine a game between Nadal and Federer, nadal wins the first 2 sets 6-0, 6-0, Federer wins the next 3 6-7, 6-7, 6-7 and wins Wimbledon. Nadal has won 30 points to 21, but conveniently you did not include tennis, or Volleyball, Table tennis, squash etc in your argument. The fact is Graeme, sets play is a part of sport contests around the world and I bet you haven't batted an eyelid about them ever.
Midweek Pennants is sets play, Saturday pennants is shots play. Different, but the same.
Graham Archell wrote :Dear 'glass half full person'
First of all, regardless of how we may consider our respective receptacles, they both contain the same.The rest is semantics.
Not sure what this is saying
Secondly, your comment regarding my 'missus' & any relationship thereto was unnecessary & offensive.
If you want to denigrate your missus by preferring to spend time at a bowls club in a letter to me then you leave yourself wide open
Thirdly, your comparison of bowls with tennis, table tennis & squash is spurious.
You haven’t said how it is spurious, it is sets play, it is the same. You win a set, you win points. Not sure how that is confusing to you.
Bowls is a team sport, the others are individual sports ( whether Volleyball is a sport is debatable ) Fourthly, I would indeed &, I hazard to guess so would every exponent of any game you care to name 'bat an eyelid' were the rules to be changed in such a perfunctory manner without any consultation with those who gain pleasure from the partaking.
Questioning volleyball as a sport is an odd line to take, it’s as much a sport as bowls is. Tennis has pairs, as does table tennis. Tennis has the Davis Cup, it is a team sport, played with sets play. You say their was no consultation, the clubs were all informed of this and agreed to the change, the change was then mentioned at the AGM. You may not like it Graham, and that is your right, but the process for change was adhered to in a proper manner.
Fifthly, please explain to me again how midweek bowls & Saturday bowls are the 'same game' when the same score can produce a different winner & how, in a team sport, there is no need to stay & cheer my team mates when there victory or loss is of no consequence.
Not sure, the idea of bowls is to get as many shots before the opposition bowls, so yes it is the same game. The scoring is different the game is the same. Your fellow teammates are playing for points the same as you, why can’t you cheer them on in a tiebreaker to see them get the points. Don’t you care about them and their rink?
Yours sincerely Graham 'half full' Archell
You may not like playing sets play Graeme, that is your prerogative, but don’t pretend to dislike Midweek purely because it’s not an aggregate style competition. It is a nonsense argument. You dislike it because it is different. Tactics are different, scoring is different. Starting time is different. Roll ups are different. Must be bad then, so let’s pass judgment before a bowl has been bowled. You pretend to be a half full person, but really you are a half empty person.
Dear Sir I acknowledge you will neither print nor probably respond but I think that a shame.
Many things are, as you say, divisive. Politics is divisive, Sport is divisive, is anything more divisive than climate change.
Should we not discuss these things ?
Surely to not discuss a matter solely because it is divisive is unfortunate.
All things should be able to be discussed in a civil manner.
We have opposing opinions. That's not divisive. As you say, I'm half empty, you're half full.Discuss it. Celebrate it. That's life. Regards Graham Archell.
Well let’s get it straight, I am not in favour of the new midweek bowling system. More to the point it would appear that quite a few other bowlers are of the same opinion.
I disagree with your explanation about how it was introduced. The bowlers were not informed about this new type of game and if any information came to our clubs in the off season it was not fully discussed or voted on by those involved.
Bowls WA have introduced a format that is not wanted by the midweek bowlers in the disguise of improvement in the game.
If BWA wanted to make change to the format of pennants they should have been open about it and had input from the bowlers involved and not by the back door in secret.
I have noticed that we no longer have 6th division now and the 5 th division has 7 teams less with two division having only 8 teams and one only 7 teams. So much for improvement in player numbers.
I have just returned from watching the first game of midweek pennants and found that after the 8 th end on the score boards, the 9 th end was played and the score boards returned to 0-0. So had no idea who won the first set.
Same thing for the second set of 9 ends, no idea who won what. How did we go lads? We have no idea? Was the reply.
Your reference to tennis and other sports like cricket etc are not parallel comparisons. Tennis has been played in sets for many years. Cricket added other formats, they did not replace the original concept.
If BWA wants to introduce a new format, start one on a different day, or play an evening competition. Then those that want it can play in it.
Just because others do not like the new format I am shocked that you would respond to the last gentleman about his wife. Such remarks are not warranted and an apology would be appropriate.
Bowls has been played for many years in the original format, I am not referring to minor changes or rules. But in a format which produced team spirit, but now each rink is playing for them selves, there is no aggregate win. You are not trying to get a 4 to win the aggregate for your team, you are now trying to just win your rink.
If someone comes up with an improvement to the game let’s go for it, but don’t drive your members away. I know of several bowlers who are now considering giving the game away completely including Saturday as they enjoyed the midweek, but now are saying as we aren’t playing midweek I may go for a trip instead WITH THE MISSUS.
Rocket Rod
Bowls WA needs to ensure they keep those who participate by ensuring they remain happy. Rather than try to change bowls to suit people who currently don’t play... it’s about time they realised that there is a HUGE variety of sports available nowadays... unlike in the past.
Creating a schools level competition is the best was to gain new young members. Currently Footy, Soccer, Basketball, Rugby, Gymnastics, Netball and Athletics dominate the primary and high schools phys Ed curriculum... why??? Because those sports provide FREE competitions, coaching and equipment. Until bowls wa do the same statewide we are way way back in the line.
The change to sets play on midweek has resulted in me no longer wanting to play midweek but left with little choice as I set my week up to give me Thursdays off. As a friend said ‘give it a go you may like its, well I don’t but Thursday is practice for Saturday and I have committed. Any major change should have been voted on by every bowler... survey us bowls wa and unlike the previous survey, actually listen to the responses... the two one blues should not exist!
James Davies
I realise that as a lady bowler, the Midweek Pennant changes don't affect me at all, so I just wanted to comment on the amount of people who say these changes came in without any warning. I went to my Clubs AGM earlier in the year where it was an item on the agenda. Much discussion was had and it was voted on as to whether we agreed or didn't to the change. Or should I say, only the men voted. I think that some of the people who are blaming BWA for this change with no warning should actually go back to their club and ask why these changes were not communicated to them in the first place. Or maybe they should go to an AGM or two and find out what is happening. Saffronne Alden
I don't play midweek pennants, but i have spoken to a lot of people about the new format & I believe the biggest problem with the new format is that you are no longer playing as a team of 12.
Teams instead are only playing as individual rinks & can't do anything to affect the overall outcome of the game other than win their 2 sets.
It takes the whole team aspect out of the game, whereas on Saturday, you are a team of 16 aiming to outscore your opposing 16.
The earlier start time I think will also have a negative effect on player numbers, as it makes it harder for people who work to consider playing, it also means that teams playing away will leave the away club around 4:30 - 5:00pm putting them right in the middle of peak hour traffic, why not start at 2:30 - 3:pm which would open up the game to workers & also mean when driving home you only get the back end of the peak hour.
Just my thoughts.
Cheers,
Ryan Moyle
Just a comment/question on the new format.
I am in favour of the new format. My only question (which I raised at the AGM) is why a 3 end tie break and not just a 1 end tie break (as they are trying to shorten the game time).
I was informed that the rules of sport (bowls) stated that for set play, there needed to be a 3 end tie break. This being the case, why is the BPL only a 1 end tie break, surely they follow the same rules?
Regards
Jim Newton
Leeming Bowling Club
The kitty will be re-spotted and the game time starts 15 minutes earlier at 1.15pm, so the game will naturally be shorter. I know with the BPL that a 1 end tiebreaker is extremely cutthroat and can be unfairly biased towards the person winning the toss and giving away the mat, thus having last bowl (which can be a whole new argument about the positives of that!). But a 3 end (may be only 2 if you win both those ends by enough) tiebreaker seems a fairer way to decide the winner.
As for the BPL (and in fact the PBA is the same where they have tiebreakers decided by ends and not shots which contravenes world bowls rules), I don’t know for sure but can only guess it is because it is a separate body outside of the World Bowls and they can set their own rules surrounding play. If you look at the Ultimate bowls Championships, they have a scoring system which definitely contravenes the scoring rules but it also operates outside of World Bowls and while they would take most of the rules across, they are free to change any they like. As a Pennants Competition we would be unable to do that.
Personally, I have never played any kind of set play before, but I am willing to give this format a try.
The earlier start time seems a step in the right direction, and being able to roll up right until the game starts appears to be a good idea too.
The set play format is very different to our normal Pennants, having no aggregate worries me a little, but, hey let’s give it a go.
Regards
Jim Stewart
Yes being sets play makes calculating aggregate very hard. Once the first set has passed the scores reset for the 2nd set, so at the 9th end of the 2nd set people would be running around trying to work out what everyone scored in the 1st set. It's become too complex, so yes the foundation of our team sport has always been the aggregate but with sets play you can continue to encourage your teammates next door but their result won't affect your result, enabling you to focus on your own rink and win.
But glad to see you have approached with an open mind, it will be good to assess at seasons end about what worked and what hasn't worked.
2nd June - It would appear the changes to midweek as outlined by Bowls WA have created some discussion points around the traps with varying degrees of like and dislike. I've received 2 letters from people wishing to remain anonymous. There is a lot to like about the new Thursday Pennant format. The 1.00 start and subsequent earlier finish to assist with travel time, the ability to partake in a 30 minute roll up is most welcome. And set play offers an exciting alternative to the traditional 21 end game, I think it will be more dynamic.
However Lawn Bowls Penant competitions have been traditionally a team game where all the rinks vie for the aggregate. Under the new format as I understand it winning a rink becomes paramount, the score irrelevant and the combined team score also irrelevant. The buzz of your rink needing to lift to win the aggerate will no longer exist.
I like the playing format I think that the scoring could be improved. My thoughts are that the team aggregate at the end of the two nine sets should determine who wins the 3 points on offer with 1 point for each rink win.
I notice that the 3 end tie break will be decided by ends, not shots. I believe that this is breaking too far from lawn bowls tradition where the winner has been the one with the highest score.
Yeah a few people who have spoken to me are a bit surprised at the tiebreaker being ends and not shots, and also no aggregate. Like any change it may not be the best solution the first time around but in subsequent years if found not to be right then it can be changed, the primary thing is trying a different way to play competitive bowls. It may not work either, but we won't know unless we try.
Hi Simon, have you seen the outcomes of the recent BWA forum? Is it an old April 1st post? Best kept secret the new Midweek format, what a bunch of donkeys! I can't see how the president's and Club Reps could approve or confirm the idea. I certainly never heard about it, I don't think the representatives can have a mandate to approve without discussing at club level.
Well, others have also thought this way, have also heard a few people say they won't even play midweek next year. All I can say to that is try it first and then decide. If you don't like after 4 weeks then withdraw but if you are a committed midweek bowler then don't let your club down and continue to play. As part of the committee that put forward this proposal I can tell you it wasn't a throw away 5 minute discussion, plenty of thought went into it with lots of changes before we settled on a change we thought would enliven the competition a bit. Time will tell if it works but unless people enter the Midweek season with an open mind then we won't get a proper outline of the future.
As for the 2nd point, Bowls WA did release this to the clubs before the forum, so the committee or the President had plenty of time to discuss and gather feedback. A similar situation happened last time with the reduction to 8 teams. Perhaps bowls club committees and Presidents need to be more communicative with their members about these sort of changes, it's significant and should have been discussed either by a newsletter, a Presidents email or a letter on the noticeboard. If you as a member didn't know, perhaps you should be asking the question of your committee?
10th JuneI think it's great that Bowls WA are willing to try a new format for pennant bowls and using Thursday mens pennants to trial any new ideas is a sensible strategy. The sets play format proposed has the advantage that it allows a rink that has a slow start and is well beaten in the first set to still be able to win a point by winning the second set, rather than have no chance of winning a point based on the current format.
However, my concern is the proposed scoring system with the majority of the points often decided by a 3 end tie break rather than on aggregate. An example is as follows:
Rink 1 :
First set 20-5, Second set 9-10, Tie break 1-2, (shots 30-17), Your points-1, Opposition points-3
Rink 2 :
First set 17-3, Second set 7-10, Tie break 1-2, (shots 25-15), Your points-1, Opposition points-3
Rink 3 :
First set 19-4, Second set 10-12, Tie break 1-2, (shots 30-18), Your points-1, Opposition points-3
Based on the old scoring system your team would receive 6 points and the opposition 0 points based on a comprehensive win on all rinks and an overall aggregate win by a comfortable 35 shots.
Based on the proposed scoring system, your team would receive 3 points and the opposition 9 points which seems hardly fair given that all rinks have comfortably out-played their opposition. Even if one of your 3 rinks had won their tie breaker, your score would be 5 points and the opposition 7 which still seems unfair given how comfortably the 3 rinks have outplayed their opposition.
An alternative scoring system could be to give a point for each set and 2 points for each winning rink based on aggregate rather than based on a tie break. For the above example, this would result in 9 points for your team and 3 for the opposition.
Another alternative scoring system is to give a point for each set and say 4 points for winning the overall combined aggregate for the 3 rinks. For the above example, this would result in 7 points for your team and 3 for the opposition.
One problem with an aggregate based scoring system with sets play is keeping track of the aggregate on the scoreboards. However, a scoring system based on aggregate rather than on a tie break seems a fairer system to me.
With the state sides just about to head off and represent out great state I wish them the best of luck and hope they do us proud against formidable opposition. Nevertheless, I do have some thoughts of my own about the make up of the mens team moving forward into next year and beyond. Below is my opinion on what our state side should look like. I understand not all players made themselves available for the squad but here it is anyway:
Lead
Second
Third
Skipper
Anthony Williams
Shane Knott
Daniel Trewhella
Daniel Brown
Scott Walker
Glenn Pauling
Justin Opie
John Slavich
Justin Smith
Aaron Smith
Kyle McIlroy
David Rankin
My rationale is fairly simple. Break up the rinks into two pairs, find two players with brilliant chemistry and a proven record of performance together and combine the two pairs into a single rink.
For example, Ant Williams and S Knott play at the same club, are good mates, and have won the state pairs together and runners up the following year - tick. DT and Browny say no more, and there you have a rink that I think could match it with the best in the country.
Scotty Walker and G Pauling once again same club and good mates have won the state triples - tick. Justin Opie and Chevy just won the masters pairs together in a canter, and there you have another rink that I think could match it with the best.
Justin and Aaron Smith a bit of a wild card but you know there's going to be awesome chemistry and quality bowls, and we all saw how well Kyle and Ranks played together against the best in the world just recently in England.
I know selection is a thankless task and this email is in no way intended to criticise what the selectors have done this year, I actually think the boys will do very well. However, I also think that team chemistry is seriously underrated and my opinion of the best 12 is based on a methodology more than anything else.
Once again good luck to the teams we will all be watching and supporting you.
Anonymous
It's an interesting and different slant on the selection of the state side. Must say it is a very good looking team off the bat, but it does leave out exceptionally good players like Clive Adams, Matt Mitchell, Cody Packer, Kevin McKay amongst some others. It also takes away that some players don't want to represent the state or aren't committee to do the things required of them, but taking all that aside, I like how you think outside the square a bit to get a side. What do others think?
I was reading the letter regarding the state selection process and it is an interesting concept. Systems like this are not new and have proven to be very successful. Paul Azinger adopted a similar method to this as captain of the United States golf Ryder Cup team to defeat Europe in 2008. It is commonly known as the "POD System" and it works around building pods within the team to build team morel and closer relationships. Interestingly the US stopped using the Pod System after 2008 and lost in 2010, 2012 and 2014, but Davis Love III then went back to it in 2016 and it paid off as the USA won 17-11. Maybe there is something in this????
This is a link to the article here if anyone is interested.
Once again I went to see a state event at Bassendean (Mixed over 60's pairs) and once again disappointed by what I witnessed. I have seen all the entry forms for the state events and they clearly state "club uniform or whites". Today at Basso I saw 8 people out of any sort of uniform. Mufti with no Bowls WA logo on them at all. A few had Henselite or Taylor shirts and they have the three bowl logo, but still aren't club uniform or whites. It's about time Bowls WA had a crack down on the dress code or just put on the entry form " just wear any old thing you want to"
Craig Hamilton
I have just read the letter to you regarding the Over 60 event yesterday at Bassendean whereby the writer stated that he saw at least 8 players who did not adhere to the dress code.
I wonder if the writer has looked at the conditions of play which clearly stated that the dress code was to “adhere to the dress standards as noted in the Bowls Australia Policy.” Bowls Australia have approved the use of coloured clothing which has been an added bonus to the attraction of bowls . Many clubs are now adopting a social club shirt, which has the approved BowlsAustralia logo on it, made by an approved company and best of all locally made, so the revenue is generated back into Bowls in Western Australia? I would think that almost all players who play in state events, many choose to wear bowls approved attire, however should they be playing in a final, they wear their club uniform, which I guess with all clubs is their pennant uniform.
I hope the writer was there at Bassendean to see some fantastic bowls by some very , very experienced bowlers who have given back to bowls as much as they have got out of playing our great sport, and not there to be looking for something to gripe about.
Linda Warburton
It is disappointing to hear someone complaining about uniforms which is such a menial part of the game. Surely we just want good players to turn up. What they have on is not relevant.
What about players who have sponsors? Personally I don’t see how it matters, or why we should care about this. Clubs know when you play for them and it shouldn’t matter if you wear something that isn’t representative of your club.
It’s time to grow up.
Mike Browne
Must admit it seems a mountain out of a molehill situation. As long as players are wearing bowls affiliated clothing, it surely doesn't matter what colours they choose to wear. As Linda alluded, all players complied with the rules of the competition, so "nothing to see here people, move along"
As I said in my letter, the 8 people I saw at Basso had non bowls gear on. There were others with "Henselite"/"Taylor" shirts, at least they have the bowls logo on them. The 8 in question were not in bowls clothing, I remember one in particular was a blue "Sportsco" shirt which only had the makers logo on it.
Yes, I did watch some great bowling and was an enjoyable day.
I also had friends who were watching at Sorrento and unsure of numbers, but the same applied.
I can only remember the entry forms I filled out for the State 4's and the over 60's pairs and it clearly stipulated on the form "Club uniform or whites." I think it does matter when it is stipulated as such.
Craig Hamilton
The top of your webpage clearly states bowls without bias therefore I would like to know why the highest winning margins have only been published this week in red division after our rink were soundly beaten by a far better team, After 16 games I find this to be a slightly bias write up to all clubs and divisions that are struggling in the competition. As a member of Bowls WA I would like to request that this email be posted on your website.
Regards Phill Leyland
Hi Phill and thanks for your letter. I publish all letters I receive unless the writer does not wish it to be so. In regards to the record, well it is a record and of interest to those who have an interest in Premier League bowls. No side has got over 50 shots before. No game that I have found yet has created over 200 shots. No margin has been as high as 92 shots yet in my records. These are significant scores and I post not only because I was a part of that side that won but because they are significant milestones. It's unfortunate that Morley were on the receiving end, but that's bowls, someone is always a loser when records get broken.
I've been quite fair about Morley this season in a year when they were never going to win any games but the attitude of the 16 has been first rate every week, I hear that from all the opposition clubs, and despite the margin of the game on the weekend, it was again first rate in what must have been difficult for them all.
I play at lake monger. There are 3 ladies in total, two in their eighties and myself. We all play in the men's pennants in Saturday and Thursday comps. As the club has 10 or less women, we can play in any of our clubs men's teams, but we must play as men complying to men's rules. There are only 45 bowling members in total at the club, 2 teams on Thursday and Saturday so without us women, we wouldn't have the numbers for even those teams.
My reason for the email is, recently I entered myself into the 2nd division and under singles and yes, I do know it says men's in the title, but having read the eligibility criteria and considering I play in the men's pennants, I didn't see anything that precluded me from entering.
I received an email from Bowls WA telling me I must be mistaken and that it was not an open gender competition.
I'm not asking for it to be an open gender competition.I am asking that when the eligibility requirement is having played at least half the season in men's pennants 2nd division and under and I meet that requirement, that I be allowed to play.
I think it is wrong to say I can play as a man in pennants but then not in a competition for men's pennants players.
What are your thoughts?
Debbie Saunders
Thanks for your letter Debbie, an interesting point of view but I think it falls down because the event is listed as the "Mens 2nd division and under" and not the "2nd division and under pennants" state titles. So even though you are entitled to play in the Mens Pennants as is the rule at the moment, it is restricted to men playing in the event.
Maybe down the track it will become an open 2nd division and under event which could incorporate both men and ladies who play in the 2nd division and under in both Tuesdays and Saturdays but at this stage that is not the case.
Did receive an interesting letter during the week but wishes to remain anonymous and not to publish the letter. The contents of it are about the Ladies Premier League promotion demotion. As we all know a rule was enacted last year that prevented the Premier League in either mens or womens having more than 1 side in that comp. WE see in White for the Ladies, the top 2 sides are Melville and Thornlie, 3rd and 4th placed Manning and North Beach are ineligible for promotion, and so Melville and Thornlie no matter what the result of the final achieve promotion. I proposed the question to Bowls WA about the mens, Mosman Park seem assured of promotion but what if Kardinya then earn promotion, does that mean the 9th placed side in PL gets a stay of execution? I was told no, the next best placed side in White will get that 2nd spot.
Fast forward to the ladies and the expectations are that Melville will not exist next year and the players from that club will split and go to other clubs, so if, and that's an if for all you Melville members, if Melville does not exist, who gets that remaining spot in the PL? It falls to 6th place Yokine (5th ended up being Mosman Park), Yokine a side that won 7 games out of 18. That team would get hammered in PL and would not be enjoyable at all for them. First year in, and the "no 2 teams in PL" could potentially be tested. Should that rule exist anyway, is it a bad thing for a club to have 2 sides in the 1 division? It happens in White, why not Premier League? You can see in the ladies that Manning, North Beach and Mosman Park quite strong White sides, what we don't want is a Premier League with those 3 clubs having 2 sides in the PL so you can understand the rule.
If Melville fold, it will make for an interesting off season decision as to who fills that 9th spot in the PL. Must admit I haven't read the entire rules so there may be something in place to account for this but an interesting discussion piece
The decision to limit Premier League on Tuesday and Saturday to one club side was done as much as looking to the longer term future as to the coming season. I think it would be agreed that having “multiple” sides from clubs in PL does not benefit the sport or the competition. The situation is more prevalent in the Ladies Competition where it would be conceivable that clubs such as Manning, Mosman Park or Sorrento – large well performed ladies clubs could work their way into PL and a 10 team competition (or god forbid 8 team), and end up with 3 or 4 competing clubs.
Already this year we see Manning’s 3rd side finish on top in 1 Green Sth and gain automatic promotion to 1 White and their 2nd side already playing in 1 White finish 3rd. It is a challenging but not inconceivable leap for them to finish 1-2 next year and suddenly have 3 sides in PL for 2020/21. That could not be allowed to occur and was recognized by clubs at past Forums, hence the rule.
In relation to this year we see Melville and Thornlie earn the right to PL next year and Vic Park Carlisle and Leeming demoted. Relatively straight forward except for the uncertainty surrounding Melville, Thornlie’s promotion is another story again, but that can wait. There are contingency options for Melville should they not be on their current site next year. That contingency is built around whether they formally MOVE AS A CLUB such as through amalgamation to an alternate venue or whether they simply disband.
In the former option the promotion to PL will go with the club, in the latter it will not – promotions are won by clubs not by players.
Yokine will not be promoted to PL as per the details explained on Page 41 of the Handbook.
Thanks.
Ken Pride
Chief Executive Office
With the looming state side selection being finalised thought i’d throw my team selection in
Am I close ?? Am I miles away ???
Always a good talking point 👍
Cheers Craig Greenhalgh
Brown (sk), Rankin, M Mitchell, Grigg
Slavich (sk), Knott, Williams, McIlroy
Packer (sk), Adams, Brandsma, Walker
Reserve: Holt
Anonymous
I was lucky enough to assist with the state trials today while Slavich, Knott and Adams are in NZ for the BPL. I will put my selectors hat on briefly, the teams are being selected today and will be announced tomorrow the 25th Feb. It is a great squad of 16 and they could all play with honour in April but there can only be 12. This is my 12, good luck to the 16
Brown (sk), Rankin, Adams, Grigg
Slavich (sk), M Mitchell, McKay, McIlroy
Packer (sk), Knott, Brandsma, Bates
Reserve: Williams
Slavich (sk) Knott Mitchell Williams
Brown (sk) Rankin Grigg McIlroy
Packer (sk) Adams Brandsma Walker
Nick Reagan
Is it time for an open discussion over the shade cloth over the greens at Kardinya Bowling Club. It is with complete confidence in the integrity and quality of the Kardinya bowling Club and its many skillful and quality members. I have not played at Kardinya this year but have played there previous seasons so it is not with a feeling of sour grapes at losing a game, a team from the club I belong to played there yesterday but I have seen none of them so this is not any of their opinions but solely mine.
I am not a new bowler having played for many decades under all conditions and on all surfaces but I know from previous experience at this club the problem is the amount of light restricted by the shade cloth so much so that it is hard to see the score boards at the opposite end of the greens, the rolling shadows are caused by the over protective nature of the shadecloth which would not be present with a lighter fabric, Every club has a home ground advantage with wind direction and green surfaces but the advantage here is above and beyond all others, even with good eyesight the amount of light on the green is not normal to any outside sporting competition.
George
George
I think I know the club that you belong to and the team from your club that played at Kardinya on the 14th February I would have thought that not being able to see the scoreboards on that day would have been preferable to your guys !
Steve Back
I was genuinely surprised that so many people object to the inclusion of composite teams in state events.
There are state titles at stake. The best players deserve to win regardless of which club they happen to be playing for.
I think composite teams are great. You get the chance to play with a wide range of players that you might not necessarily have the opportunity to play with during the pennant season. Imagine playing alongside your family or best mates and even have the chance to win a state title with them.
Want to win a state title? Work hard, practice, play as much as possible. No one wins a state title by accident or without putting in the effort to improve their bowls.
If you want to be the best, you have to beat the best. I'm definitely not deterred by the inclusion of composite sides.
I believe the exclusion of composite teams would have a negative effect on the competition. People would potentially miss out on playing because they are unable to form team from their club.
I can see this being a problem for some of the smaller country clubs who are already feeling disadvantaged in relation to the scheduling of the state events.
Anonymous
Thanks Anonymous, I'm sure about 10 years ago we trialled club based sides for the state fours I think it was and it was a resounding failure, more people dropped off than before I think and it resorted back to a composite nature. Watching the Australian Championships I think Queensland still has their state titles as club based events but they are the only ones. I could be wrong on that and stand corrected.
You know I believe that we all have a responsibility to make our state representatives better by playing against them. Yes they will probably beat us, but it is another competitive game that they play. When our state team was strong, we would have double the entrants to our state events, but we didn't have double the number of registered bowlers. Did these people back in the day think they could win? Don't think so, but they inadvertantly made our top bowlers better because they had to play extra games. Maintain form, play more big shots to win games. It's conditioning them so when they play against the other states, they can re-create. I will always play state events, even when old, to give our top bowlers more games, more bowls, more shots to play to win.
It bemuses me that bowlers are concerned about composite teams. We are playing state championship events for heavens sake.
My concerns and they are well known that the pennant season of 18 games is too many.
Clubs are finding it so difficult too run their own events in the time frame.
We missed the boat in not trying something different for this season because some bowlers are frightened of "change"
We must give our sport the opportunity to find itself in the community as other sports are or planning to do.
My last comment: Climate Change is an issue to our sport and maybe in the future we will be forced to make changes??
Ray Povey
State Team Squad, Indeed some interesting selections.
I see the criteria for any sports state squad as;
- Past performances in state carnivals.
- current form and results in major events.
- potential (future)
- characteristics to fit into state team environment.
For these reasons I am perplexed that my 24 year old son Mitchell has been overlooked. He has played premier league at Doubleview and is now playing at South Perth. His performance in being runner up in last years Blue Ribbon event, the state singles, tick form and "potential" boxes.
In that tournament he defeated;
- Mick Martin in sectional play
- Daniel Patterson 21/20
- Grant Stokes 21/18
- Matt Ayres 21/6
- Russell Bates 21/9
- Charlie Slavich 25/22
Before losing the final to Warren Holt 21/25. Holt went on to also win the champion of champion singles.
6 premier league players and a country champion. 3 of these players are now, justifiablely in the state squad.
I know some will dismiss my comments as "a father's bias" but performance facts don't lie. I commend the selectors for adding Cameron Harris to the squad; acknowledging his progress through premier league and the state fours victory. A young man with potential to be a strong state player.
Terry Cranswick
Thanks Terry for the letter, as I alluded to some people would consider themselves stiff to miss out and Mitchell would be one of them. It would be a tough job being a state selector as there are always going to be some hard decisions to be made.
I personally would like to see a rationale for selections, some people pick themselves with performance over the past year or two but whatever the reason it would be good to know why they have chose these 26 specifically.
Simon Good write ups on the sides series, it is appreciated by many bowlers to be able to read about how our teams are doing, it's a shame that there wasn't more coverage of the games from those that were there in Darwin.
The players did do very well and it appears they were unlucky on a couple of ends, which as we know, if only we had got that one end it would have changed the out come.
Good to see the girls do so well, and the guys had some tough battles against some seasoned eastern state sides.
For the future it would be good if BWA could give some thought to promoting our sides and giving some coverage of the games. The games in Darwin had coverage, but I did not see one WA game on FB.
If any written coverage was posted, I must have missed it. With the number of BWA managers, coaches, selectors etc that were there and the fact that someone has the ability to transmit the game through the internet many people were disappointed.
I am sure lots of people have seen the FB posting over the weekend, and thought that Martin had posed his post very well. As a sport living country don't we all question our teams ability to win games, our coaching staff to bring our teams to the top, our selectors ability to find the best in the state to play the best side possible for that week. Injured or underpar players are left out and replacements found. It's on the TV every day, that the coach is under scrutiny, that the selectors are being questioned about the inclusion of players and why others are overlooked time after time.
It is a big talking point every week at pennant selection.
Are our fees being spent in the best interest of WA bowlers, is also a fair question. It is not a taboo subject. I for one want to see my money spent on our bowlers so that they can do the best for the rest of us that are not good enough to be selected. We are the supporters and we are paying towards the costs.
It would appear that we had a large contingent of support staff at the event, that's great, but did that cost come from the bowlers of WA also.
I saw that some guys are sick of being questioned about their inclusion, or lack of success in games, or how they got in the side, or if you have never played you would have no idea. Now that's a shame if they pulled out, as we need talented players, but it is part and parcel of being in the spotlight.
The questions being asked are normal queries, the appearance is that if you were to play at a few select clubs your chances of selection are greatly increased, is that not true. Are our administrators considering others with the ability to win being seriously considered or is easier to select from those in close contact with them?
Rod Revell
I think this letter echoes a few bowlers thoughts out there, and there are a few that won't agree. You raise a couple of interestings questions which I think I can comment on. I also don't recall seeing a game televised by Bowls Australia, I also don't recall a Tasmania or ACT being covered either so they didn't discriminate against us individually. I, like you, would have loved to have watched the guys or girls play with our own eyes, I'm not sure who was up there apart from Ken Pride and the selectors, but I don't think electronic coverage is their strong suit, so sending someone else with the only job of covering games may well be an expense not justified, as much as we would have liked it. I recall the radio station SportFM a few years ago with Sherro, Mike Zusman and someone else covering them all on radio, that was fantastic but the cost was covered privately.
The other point you raise is the questions asked by yourself and Martin about spending and the like, as bowlers I also feel we are entitled to ask the questions, we may not like the responses! But we all contribute and we want to see the best results achieved. I think we did, it was a fine effort by our team and so close. Next year!
I say well done to the state team apart from the first game the boys played well, they all give a huge amount of their personal time in practice prior to this event and i am sure they all gave 100%, also to the selectors and the coach well done, they also give a huge amount of time.
Bill Owen
After watching most of the BPL , the suns fought valiantly but just didn’t get over the line .
As WA players ,do we drive to much ??
We seemed to have to many short bowls. So is that the reason we drive ? The other sides very rarely drove. Preferring to draw , draw ,draw
I’m just asking as to the tactics we use over here compared to the eastern states . Cambridge always seems to be there about in the 5 a side at Helensvale , so is our game plans and tactics wrong , or don’t we have the talent pool of the east ?
Wayne Rayner
I would like to know how they select the Perth Suns PBL side.
Over the years i have watched with disappointment as shorley we have a better standard of bowlers we can send.Clive Adams has had his go several times and failed, Chevy is a character is good for the sport but most of the others have come up short.
We should be doing better than we have.
Unhappy PBL watcher.
It's funny how 2 people can watch a game of bowls and walk away with 2 different perspectives of the game. I thought Alex Marshall was brilliant, the way he was able to draw when in trouble, never drove but only played with solid weight in the games I saw was inspirational. I had the opposite thought to you Wayne - maybe I'm playing the game wrong by drawing when in trouble, maybe I should be driving when down like Sherriff, Wilson, Bester etc do. The amount of times I saw drives being played and luck entering the equation to win games was far more than a draw shot to win the game. Except Marshall. In my eyes he is the best bowler in the world today bar none, especially indoors.
So to answer your question Wayne, yes I think we drive too often, not as a state and collective, but that seems to be the way the game is going. We as WA players either don't have as much luck as others, or don't execute the drive or weighted shot as well.
For Unhappy BPL player, I don't think you could find better bowlers though, John, Clive and Helen are first picked for the state team every year. Perhaps we do need some new blood, but if the new blood is of a lesser quality, surely the result will be even worse than it is? We just have to accept that at the moment we aren't good enough, when in a 3 on 3 environment. Hopefully our 2 sets of 12 for the sides series next week can show that as a state we have some heart and can fight through the obvious talent difference that the powerhouse states possess, but I am quite comfortable with the selections made to represent WA in the BPL. They weren't that bad, just not good enough. Sometimes it happens in sport.
Simon Alden
P.S. - I think the Suns may be selected by Bowls WA, they do own the licence so to speak so they have the final say on the composition of the team.
Hi Simon, now that the season is over I would like to respond to a letter posted on your site by John Terrell on the 17th of March 2018.
John’s comment, that the Morley Bowling Club is a basket case, is disappointing and disrespectful to the club and its members. Unfortunately the actions of individuals who make these public statements without having researched the facts are not only damaging the reputation of players and clubs but they are also damaging the game of bowls in general.
The facts are that there were a number of reasons for the group of bowlers, named by John, for not bowling. Some had work commitments some had medical issues one was suspended and some decided to support the suspended player by also not playing.
It needs to be understood that the Morley Bowling Club has a strong management committee that is committed to looking after the interests and needs of its members and, where ever possible, fostering the game of bowls. Maintaining a great club culture and good values are the committee’s number one priority. In addition these ideals are also the views of the vast majority of the club members.
Over the past year we at Morley, like a number of other clubs, have certainly had issues to deal with and the committee has made decisions that have always had the club members, club values and club culture at heart.
A demonstration of the committee’s commitment occurred just prior to the last pennant game of the season when the Morley Management Committee had to make one of these hard decisions in the interest of the clubs members and values. The consequence of that decision and the subsequent actions of a hand full of premier league players identified that there was a different culture and value set between the club and those players. The final wash-up was that four players resigned and moved on and two players were suspended.
Yes, with six players out of the top side, these decisions may hurt our premier league aspirations for next season but if it helps maintain the club’s integrity it is well worth it. It must also be said that there are a lot of very good players in the bowling fraternity who would love to play premier league so we don’t see numbers as an issue.
So we, at Morley, know that we are not a club in turmoil or a basket case but a club that cherishes its values and culture and will not shy away from making the tough decisions in the interest of our club.
Vince Princi
MBC President
As an interesting follow-up to the
desertion of Top Division bowlers from Innaloo at the start of this season
it is worth taking note that some of them took advantage of this situation
to enter and dominate the second division and under competition this year.
Rod Revell who won the singles and was a finalist in the pairs (I don't know
the result yet) and Ted Alden the other finalist in the pairs. Mitchell
Cranswick also entered despite being runner up in the State Singles this
year. Peiter Harris has assured me that this is perfectly legal but I think
the issue needs consideration before next years competition.
Peter Callison
To which I wrote back to him as follows -
Hi Peter,
Yes one of those quirks, if they had stayed then they certainly would not
have been eligible although the club demoted itself to Division 2 and I
think finished bottom so if they'd stayed at Innaloo and the club demoted
itself then they still would have been eligible anyway! Do you want me to
post the letter or are they just musings?
Actually I want it posted as surely I am not the only one who thinks the rules need to be adjusted. I believe the rules already include a clause which states that entries that are not considered in the spirit of the competition will not be accepted. Perhaps a more formal indication such as has not played Division one in 5 years would more appropriate. Basically I would just like it out there as a discussion point - personally I was disgusted.
Then Osborne Park managed to add to the debacle by scheduling the finals of the singles on a green without lights, forcing them to change greens for the last few ends.
By the way Innaloo had both teams demoted on Saturday. On Thursday 4th division was demoted and second held on by 3 points. Rod Revell may have had a good year but those that remained loyal did not.
What made it worse was that the runner-up Glen Martin was so deserving of the title - one of the most dedicated players in the State.
Peter Callison
Well where to start! Quite obviously I disagree with everything Peter has said and as it is my wedding anniversary I haven't got time tonight to respond. I will write my thoughts tomorrow on this but do you agree or disagree with Peter?
Feel free to send a letter in response in my Contact page
Mitch Cranswick played all year in division 2, and in division 3, on a Thursday would say he is more than eligible to play in the second division and under singles, cant see the tie up with him doing well in the state singles.
Bill Owen
I was reading the letter in regards to 2nd Division and under events. Having just completed a season in 2nd division Red, I can honestly say that there are many very good bowlers, many of whom have played 1st division getting around in the lower divisions. In our division alone there is Daniel Wood, Robert Hunter, Travis Vallance, Dinko Bacich, Vincent Santostefano, Michael Yates, David Downey, Mitchell Cranswick, Darryl Flintoff, Colin Moore, Graeme Wake, Max Brown, William Tepania and Marin Sokol. These are only the players In 2 Red that I know who have played in Premier League. I am sure there are more. What I am saying is, if you enter a State event, any state event, you must be prepared to play some very good bowlers. There is no free ride.
Keep up the great work
Peter Wachmer
I read with interest on Peter Callison's musings regarding the 2nd division and under championships played on the Easter weekend, I have also read Peter Wachmer and Bill Owen replies.
For the people who don't know by now 30 to 35 bowlers (male and female) left the Innaloo Sportman's Club prior to the start of pennants due to the problems they had with the administration personnel of the club, nothing at all to do with the bowling club as I am sure that a majority of the players would not have left if the problem had been solved, it is documented where all these bowlers went to.
Myself, Rod Revell and Paul Harber joined Bassendean for the new pennant season with all of us harbouring a desire to break into Bassendean top side in Premier League. Unfortunately we were not good enough with their strong line-up to play Premier so we all settled into their second side which was 2 blue and played there all season, which we all enjoyed.
For Peter Callison to say that he was disgusted absolutely baffles me as like Peter Wachmer I too saw lots of ex 1st division players playing in the 2nd division during the tournament, for him to say this was unfair means that he obviously has sour grapes on losing, the way to combat this Peter is to get better at bowls.
Congratulations to Osborne Park for running this event for the lower grades the problem they had at the end was not of their making but due to players still in both events that also happens during the Country Week carnival.
Regards
Ted Alden
WOW, I have just returned from Fiona Stanley Hospital, where I have been receiving radiation treatment for the last 5 weeks every day, and my second dose of Chemo, which runs for a 5 hour dose. To find I have caused more trouble and I didn't even have to try this time.
All season I have been nursing the cancer and the selectors have had someone on standby in case I was unable to play due to the sickness.
A large contingent of bowlers, both male and female left Innaloo BC for our own reasons and moved to many different clubs. I joined Innaloo about 8 years ago when they had 2nd division blue, and worked with the players there to win each week. We attained 1 st div Blue in the first year, we won that to go to 1st division White, which we maintained for a season. With some players joining Innaloo we managed Promotion to 1 st Division Red and maintained it for a season. I can honestly say we enjoyed our time at Innaloo, until the new manager destroyed the atmosphere last season, with his violence and verbal abuse against women and men, and when the committee supported him over 50-60 bowlers, many left, and some more who stayed to try to keep the club going left during this season when they discovered the error they made.
Three of the guys (Paul Harber, Ted Alden, and myself )joined Bassendean BC and we're hopeful of a run in the Top side, but the selector felt his top side was full and settled on his preference, which allowed us to play in the second side of the club, or should we have abandoned Bassendean? I don't think so.
Ted Alden has had a bad run over the past few years, from being the top skipper, then a series of illnesses that could have killed him, and left him wondering if he could bowl ever again, but the fighter that he is saw him train and practice until he had the ability to have a go a the lead in a side, which he has done for several years.
Drew Daley suffers with his damaged spine and may well have to have it fused in two places, but plays each week often in pain.
I take my hat of to these two guys and will argue with anyone about their qualifications to play this year under the conditions of play.
My self, well those that know me and what I am going through, will understand when I say, Bugger you Peter, want to win, learn how to bowl better as we all do.
My thanks to Glen for a great game, I am sure you will give it another good try, it was just my turn.
My thanks go to Trevor Barron and Os PK for running the tournament and agree the last game was on the wrong green as there was no lights, but Trevor said either D or E, and Glen preferred D, and I didn't care as I'd played 4 games already and just wanted to play, never even considering lights until we found that we couldn't see the kitty or the marker with a cigarette lighter, lol. So we simply exchange greens which was similar and unknown for both bowlers.
Didn't hear Glen say to anyone that I shouldn't be allowed to play, and I never said but often thought it that if he changed clubs he could play easily in a 1 st division side.
Sorry Peter I have to disagree with your logic and cannot see any reason to make things more complicated by adding more rules and clauses to restrict bowlers, I have know so many guys that are worthy of playing in a higher division, but prefer third division as they play with their mates and were then allowed to play third div and under games.
Rod 'ROCKET' Revell
I have read the Peter C letter with some concern. I watched the game with Rocket and Glen Martin literally on the edge of my seat. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that in times to come Glen Martin will be a name equivalent to Champion in lawn bowls. I consider both players friends, and while I am truly impressed with GM’s ability, work ethic, commitment and stellar progression in bowls in a very short time (GM has also been a champion athlete in other sports), and in general I consider him a winner in life, and as a person.
Rocket won the game, and yes, they moved green due to a complete failure of vision due to loss of light. You could not see the end of the green. The game was contemplated as likely to end much sooner than it did by the OP, who ran a fantastic tournament and catered for a massive influx of players who all wanted the opportunity to contest a competition and they did it well. Hats off to the Park and Trevor Barron and Murray Bateman for logistics, and John Roach for umpiring with Martin Swift, and to the numerous and extensive OP people who marked, did the kitchen the bar etc, ad infinitum.
In truth, what Peter’s arguments seem to mainly be about the bowling ability of the players like Rocket, who is lightning-in-a-bottle as far as bowls is concerned and one of the deadliest skippers in the game. He came first I think of all the skippers in our division … 2nd division this year. He also played amazingly well given his chemo and radiation treatments at the same time as the competition. He also came equal third in the other pairs discipline and might have fared even better had he chosen his playing partner more wisely.
Peter when you contested the novice singles last season at Innaloo, after 15 or 20 years out of the game, … I think you also said to me you placed in the final 8 of the state singles one year, and had played Premier League: nobody said to you; you were disloyal or disgusting. You certainly weren’t what I consider a novice, you have played bowls before and at a fairly high level.
I had thought you a better man that you are, there is nothing but truly high praise I can give Rocket for his loyalty, bowling ability and upstanding nature as a man. Equally the same to Glen.
As for the documented issues that surround some people who were targeted at your club, my old club (for six years), and Rocket’s club for 7 near 8 years, and people more senior to us who had more than 20 and 30 years who were not prepared to put up with … truly disgusting treatment. What is wrong with you? People don’t have to put up with terrible treatment, this is lawn bowls. Further, I think Rocket has been to four or five clubs only in 30 or 40 years of bowling! I myself have been to 27, and I am trying to find a uniform that doesn’t make me look fat.
I trust you will stay at Innaloo forever, with your loyalty of … is it a year yet? I am disappointed in what you have written and the tone and the entitlement it displays.
The spirit of the game was never in question during or after it was played, and won and lost, with only you left with a bitter and resentful letter, and a Parthian Shot at a great man.
PS - a big congratulations to Ted Alden and Drew Daley from Basso for winning, and Gary Lewis and Ben Marino (who dismantled me easily) from Midland Morrison on coming 2nd.
To everyone like me who went in the comp and played, and those we played against and everyone else who enjoyed it very much: I am looking forward to playing again next year and seeing you all again. Thanks to the rank and file who are in the end the ones who make any event a success, and for making it possible.
Regards,
Rob Amos
I have read with interest the comments regarding the 2nd Division and Under Championships and yes I competed in these Championships and this is not sour grapes as I thoroughly enjoyed the experience. I don't think anyone begrudges ex Premier League or ex 1st Division players competing in these championships, one of the players I was up against was ex Premier League but is now at a club whose top side is in 3rd Division so he and others in the same boat are more than entitled and welcome to play. I think the main bone of contention is that players who play 2nd Division Saturdays and then 1st Division or Premier League on Thursdays are eligible. Correct me if I am wrong but I understand all the winners played Premier League on Thursday. If the competition is 2nd Division and Under why is it not 2nd Division and Under for Thursday competitors as well.
Congratulations to the winners and thank you to Trevor Barron and Osborne Park Bowling Club for putting on such a successful tournament.
Wayne Molloy
I think the writers above have summed it up better than I could have done. To be 'disgusted' when these bowlers have broken no rules or done anything wrong except for entering a tournament they had every right to enter is a poor choice of words. This event is not a Bowls WA run event, it is run by Osborne Park and as such they make the rules and enforce the rules. If Innaloo wish to run a 2nd Division and Under (but only if you haven't played Division 1 for 5 years or Midweek Division 1) then they probably could.
I also don't recall seeing a letter last year when Phil Park from Swan won the event, who played Division 1 the year before and after, and you neglected to mention Drew Daley who also played Div 1 the year before with Mosman Park, so your angst is not really about Revell or Alden playing Division 2, but I suspect it's more about them being one of the many who left Innaloo with all the off field dramas.
Perhaps you need to direct your energies to re-building Innaloo, forget who was there and focus on the list you have and show that the club has turned the corner and people will join the club again in the future.
Simon Alden
It both saddened and angered me to read the two ridiculous submissions from Peter Callison. I congratulate those who replied on their integrity, as this could well have become very nasty.
I too attended Osborne Park over the weekend and thoroughly enjoyed watching the high class games unfold. No one could have asked for a better singles final, both Rocket & Glenn deserve congratulations on their performance. Also the men's pairs, a brilliant result for Ted and Drew. Rocket, Robbie, Ted and Drew did not deserve the comments made towards them and I strongly believe, that Peter now owes them and the Osborne Park Bowling Club a written apology. I trust he will post it on your site sooner rather than later.
Debbie Watson
I hate to be another whiner but here we go.
I love lawn bowls. I love the game, the people and the sense of community.
In saying that, there’s something that I find extremely frustrating and I can’t see it changing anytime in the near future.
People are often shocked to hear that the major women’s pennant competition is played on a Tuesday morning. I know many women who are unable to commit to playing Tuesday pennants because of work and/or study commitments. There are some women who take annual leave from their jobs and others who negotiate their hours with their employer to make themselves available to play (sometimes resulting in a loss of hours/pay cut).
Some of us aren’t in a position to do this and therefore miss out on playing in the more competitive format of the game. Saturday pennants is looked at as second grade. It is two rinks as opposed to three, 18 ends instead of the standard 21 and there’s no Premier Division. Often referred to as “picnic pennants” it is looked down upon by men and women and it’s disheartening for those of us who want to go out and be taken seriously as competitive bowlers.
This isn’t a complaint about Bowls WA. I appreciate all of the work they do that allows us to go out week after week and compete in various events.
In saying that, I see a very grim future for women’s bowls in WA if something doesn’t change. It is going to be exceedingly difficult to attract new (young) female bowlers to the game if they are told that the only pennant competition that is worth playing is played on a Tuesday morning.
Anonymous
Funnily anonymous, I was talking to my wife about the parlous state of ladies bowls at my club (we had 3 men fill in for their last game of our only side at the club), and she contemplated playing bowls next year to build it up again. When she asked what time the ladies play Saturday she was told 1.45, same as the men. She likes to watch me play bowls so that was out. What about Tuesday she asked, well they start at 9.30am I think, I said. So I have to take the whole day off and not a half day? Yup I said, well I can't do that she said and another potential lady bowler goes by the wayside. Why don't ladies bowls start at the same time on both days? Whether it is at 9.30am on Saturday or 1.30pm Tuesday, why is it so different? The men start at approx the same time Thursday/Saturday.
Simon Alden
In response to your question about why Tuesday and Saturday bowls for the ladies are at different times, I cannot answer that but I will tell you why it is in the mornings on Tuesday. It was originally set up for the ladies so they had time to drop the kids off to school (hence 9:30 start) and then it would be finished with time for lunch and a small chat, and then they could go a pick the kiddies up from school. I doubt very much whether many (or any) of the ladies playing at the moment are actually being benefitted by that because, as Anonymous says, most of the 'younger' ladies playing are taking time off work to play, not fitting it in between school duties.
I have heard around the traps however that ladies do like the early start as it gets us finished and off the green before the real heat of the day kicks in which is inevitably after lunch.
Also, I have heard many ladies negate playing on a Saturday for the heat reason and also the very same reason your wife won't play, they like to watch their hubbies play in the afternoon. A switch to a morning start time on Saturdays for the ladies might very well see more interest in Saturday playing and may start to build up to it being seen as a more competitive day. If I remember correctly (and I am happy to be corrected here if I'm wrong) the most recent survey that went out asked the question as to whether Ladies Saturday Pennant should or could be changed to 9:30am start and I believe that got an overwhelming yes vote.
Two cents, in.
Saffronne Alden
• Its generally accepted that women these days have to work, even after having kids, the lifestyle and cost of living these days is such that we go back to work.
• Yet…Tuesday pennants is still considered to be the pinnacle of women’s bowls. If you have aspirations of playing top competitive bowls and looking for state selection, most likely you are going to have to play Tuesday pennants.
• For most people this means taking a day off work/working part time or missing out. Yes there is Friday and Saturday pennants which were designed for working women, but state selection from these two playing groups is few and far between. I know I certainly only got considered after I started playing Tuedays, even after being a junior and after being a part of previous development squads.
• So that one day a week costs that woman not just their weekly game fees it costs them forgone salary/wages. In my case this is almost $300 per week I lose from my pocket. So over 23 weeks by the time you thrown in some pre-season practice matches…$6900, plus $250 membership, plus $190 in weekly green/game fees over the season…that’s $7340 before I’ve even bought a drink.
• And then we have all the events that matter…the ones where if you are trying to get a look in, you have to play in and play well. This is things like masters, state events, consistency singles, 100-up. And guess when they are mostly held…that’s right, during the week. So you either have to take time off work or miss out. And yes, it’s a choice thing, but for those aspiring players it is really the only choice you have.
• There’s a total of 23 days’ worth of these events. The average person receives only 20 days of annual leave per year. Makes total sense right?
• For the 2017-18 calendar if a working woman wants to play in all the top level events, as well as Tuesday pennants, they are going to have to take a total of 41 days off.
• Is it not time we (the women) start transitioning to weekend bowls so that we can allow and encourage a younger generating of players through, not to mention keeping the younger demographic that we currently have?
Hailey Adams
I can only see positives of shifting ladies Tuesday pennants to Saturday mornings, most would only work Monday - Friday and greens will be prepared for mens in the afternoon anyway and also bar staff would be there by the time they finish.
Times may need to altered but that is only minor, as for club events I would have thought most clubs have enough green space to play on Sundays.
To me this is a no brainer but I think the ladies would need to lobby for the change as I reckon BWA would be a little gun shy of making changes after what they copped last year.
Either way, they need to get away from Tuesdays because if they don't numbers will continue to decline.
Regards
Neale Griffin
Just a quick note to add, if they changed the times from Tuesday to 1.30 and Saturday to 9.30 the greenkeeper would not be more affected by this change, he just starts earlier on a different day. I really think this will work but as you rightly say Neale, this has to be driven by Ladies and Ladies Bowls clubs to make the change
Simon Alden
Being a non-bowler, I only look at this website from time to time. It came as quite a surprise to see a conversation I had with my husband recounted virtually word for word. * Note to self: start each conversation with "off the record, darling..."
I've been a bowler's wife for many years now and when I sit there on Saturday afternoons (watching the blokes) and think to myself "ooh, I'd come the other hand, if that was me" or "bring the mat up, they're struggling on the short ends", the truth of it is... that I would, if I could.
I've absolutely grown to love the game but there are things in life, and love, that I can't easily surrender. First of those is watching my hubby play on a Saturday afternoon. Second is the income that I need in order to support my family.
Would I play lawn bowls if it were accessible to me? Yes! Would it fill an empty place in my life in terms of community engagement with other women like Hailey, Saffronne and Anonymous? Yes!
The way things stand with women's bowls, I am a non-participant waiting in the wings, waiting for the winds of change to blow through. Even a Tuesday afternoon or Saturday morning would do! Question is... how long will I have to wait?
Trina Alden
I am not normally one to say too much about anything really (unusual for a cop I suppose) but here goes…
Some may think this is a petty issue however I do not think that one week of my Thursday and Saturday pennant games this year has gone by without some direct discussion or the over hearing of others discussing the white bowls stickers we have used this season.
For a petty issue, it sure has generated a lot of comments, none of which are favourable.
I am unsure as to any sponsorship arrangement in place for the use of the stickers but surely we all agree that the quality of the sticker is just so very poor.
We have seen stickers peeling away from the bowl in places and not being able to stick them back down at all. The majority of bowls I saw had parts torn away so they did not stick out and act like a wing as the bowl took its journey down the green. Some wet days early on in the season saw a lot of bowlers looking for replacement stickers after just one or two games.
I have seen and heard umpires involved in a close measure that have been impacted by stickers that are falling off the bowl.
I have arranged for bowls stickers for WA and Australian (Police Teams) and can say with confidence that the stickers withstand all weather conditions and that at season’s end they can be peeled off without leaving any film or residue at all. The cost of these stickers is not significant.
Like I said, I am unaware of the costing/payment arrangements from the Bowls WA side of things but perhaps this issue could be looked at with a view to provide a better and stronger product.
Kindest regards and good luck to all playing in finals over the next couple of weeks.
Karl (Sludgey) Vandersluys
I agree with you Karl, and it has been this way for a couple of years. I think technically when measuring you have to measure from the sticker if it is attached to the bowl and not the bowl itself, I am happy to be corrected on that issue, but that in itself if correct is a problem.
My first few years in bowls were played in Melbourne where we used club colour stickers, where we could sticker all 4 bowls with our clubs colours. To me it looks better, and also alleviates the need for us to have all 4 bowls without stickers in the state singles. We pay for the stickers anyway at a club level, why can't we organise our own stickers, include the sponsor (this year being Domina Insurance) and also our club name, in the colours and design of the club.
Simon Alden
The past couple of years have been quite tumultuous for the Western Australian bowls industry, with three major clubs being embroiled in regrettable, unsavoury events.
First it was Innaloo, which saw the club implode through the mass walk-out of star players to Bassendean, Osborne Park and other clubs, forcing Innaloo to drop down a division from One White to Two Blue. Then it was Mt Pleasant’s turn just before Christmas in 2017 when six of its top players in Wayne Heldt, John Wray, Greg Quann, Chris Jones and Merv Hughes joining Melville to help them supposedly advance from One Blue to One White level. Well what a massive failure that was; turning “The Magic” into a bunch of also-rans, causing Melville to drop from second position on the One Blue South ladder after round #4 to seventh position after round 17.
Now, we are witnessing Morley displaying all the traits of a basket case with a truckload of top players including Anthony Provost, Rhett Butler, Allan Barron, Robbie and Bruce Urquhart, John Berecz, Stuart Bainbridge, Murray Robinson etc now not available for the final qualifying pennant game of the season. This is certainly a worrying thing for BowlsWA to see unravelling before its administrative eyes. With diminishing player numbers across the greens in Western Australia — metro and country included — it sure is a dreadful trend that is looming for our sport.
John Terrell
Thanks John for your letter and summarising the events of the year. It certainly has been a challenging one for Ken Pride and his team at Bowls WA. Innaloo would have caused a panic when 60 bowlers departed in October forcing Innaloo to relinquish One White and causing a major re-shuffle of the divisions, I think Warnbro being the main benefactor when they came up from Blue. Coincidentally the President at Innaloo wrote to me this week to quash rumours about the clubs inability to function going forward, and that they are business as usual and will welcome all bowlers to its facilities in the off season.
The Mt Pleasant/Melville drama is still a bit in the air with the new facilities being proposed and what was going to be a 2019 season opening may not occur and so the merger of the 2 clubs may or may not proceed.
We wait and see what happens at Morley but it is now the end of the season and plenty of time for that club to re-group in time for next season.
On top of that was the defeat of the proposal for a 14 game season which caused a re-work of the pennant system as well -who'd be the President of Bowls WA at the moment!
Simon Alden
Aaaah, the power of the pen!
John Terrell’s comments about the woes at Mt Pleasant, “being embroiled in regrettable, unsavoury events” from the subsequent walkout of “six top players” and their “joining Melville to help them supposedly advance from One Blue to One White” cannot go unanswered.
He does not at any stage address the reason for the walkout but instead chooses to sally the reputation of the players concerned with his statement “turning “The Magic” into a bunch of also-rans, causing Melville to drop from second position on the One Blue South ladder after round #4 to seventh position after round 17.”
As a former journalist, he should know better, but no, he would prefer to sensationalise issues to create a story rather than research them and write a balanced view.
So John, let’s look at the facts!
After round #4 Melville One Blue South were indeed in second position, but the difference between second and seventh was one win. After round #18 Melville One Blue South were indeed in seventh position but the difference between second and seventh was just two wins. I guess you could say, John, the season in One Blue South was pretty tight.
The other thing you should have done was to look at the fixtures to see why Melville was in second position after round #4. They beat Manning, at Manning, (who finished the season in 9th place) and they beat Gosnells and Rossmoyne at home, both synthetic clubs that struggle on the fast, windy grass greens at Melville.
Things are going well at Melville, John! Not only did six players from your club join but so did John Smith and Bryce Hagboom. This “influx” of players has resulted in some very pleasing outcomes for the club.
Of the seven divisions (in total) that played on Thursdays and Saturdays, two gained automatic promotion and two are in the play-offs for promotion.
Perhaps, John, when Melville and Mt Pleasant merge you will choose to come and join us. Then again, perhaps you won’t.
Chris Jones
To whom it may concern ,
Have been coming down for countryweek now for near on 10 years , having had the pleasure of playing at most of the major premier clubs . As well as playing at them during state fixtures . Had the pleasure of playing at Bassendean bowling club for 3 out of the 4 days of sectional play .
The club should very happy with the way it presented itself - in hospitality , mateship , and exceptional food.
For a start the President was on hand pretty much the entire time while play was on , congrats Linton Pike . In the absence of the club captain ( something about playing bowls in England , Blake Nairn ) Simon Alden stepped up and made sure everything ran smoothly for the 3 days with little stress and much enjoyment for all .
To the many band of helpers through the bars and the kitchen , thanks !! Nothing was ever to much trouble !!!
Thanks once again to the Bassendean Bowling Club
Wayne Rayner
Member Brookton Bowling Club
Like to make mention of how good we got treated at the Mosman Park Bowling Club today at country week. Greens nothing short of sensational along with great lunch and sweets and crew at the club couldn’t help us enough.
I would be happy to draw here anytime
Be proud Mosman Park it was like country hospitality in the city. Well done
T-bone Jones
Dalwallinu Bowling Club
Hi, would like to thank your club (Morley Bowling Club) for the hospitality, food and great bowling green on Sat whilst playing in the pairs.
Regards,
Arch
It was good to watch the state singles again and well done to Warren and Kristina on a good win.
Congratulations to Bowls WA on taking the initiative to record and show the finals on social media. Whilst I was fortunate enough to be in attendance on the day it was disappointing to see what little audience was in attendance.
Surely as the state singles is the blue ribbon event in the bowls calendar it would make sense to promote this great sport of bowls to non bowlers and regular bowlers by holding the finals and grand final on a Sunday where more people can attend workers and families creating a bigger and better atmosphere. I would like to here back on this from others.
Bill Owen
Thanks Bill for your letter, I encourage anyone to send in their thoughts about all things bowls related. With this topic there seems to be a reluctance lately to play bowls on Australia Day and I'm guessing this is why it was played on a Monday this year. As an alternative they show the event through Facebook and I think it peaked at around 180 people watching but i'm sure many more watched at some stage, people that otherwise could not have watched. If they held it on Sunday would many more people attend or stay at home and watch on the computer? It's a chicken and egg scenarion but I like the broadcast and can only see it improve for future years. People can now watch that event and all the other state events for posterity, something that hasn't happened before. Like Bill, anyone who would like to voice their views on this please send something in.
Simon Alden
Would like to enquire Bowls WA decision not to have no Thursday pennants fixture this week been the 25th January. Wouldn't most club benefit and be busy Thursday after pennants as most people will have the public holiday off. Clubs could have meals Thursday night instead of Friday night just on this occasion.
As we are aware there is state singles on Saturday 27th been played and sure that bowlers are playing at the normal venues on Australia day so not too many people can go away if they put their name down for state singles or Australia day game .
This has happen on two occasions now with the Thursday fixture we had to play one before Christmas but not after.
Aaron Faulkner
Yeah it is a bit strange isn't it, we have also discussed at our club why we aren't playing. Our kitchen for example is shut Friday night this week because of the PH so a great idea to open Thursday instead and lead into the long weekend with bowls, beer, food and then a break. The Christmas fixture could easily have been foregone I think for this game and the remaining fixture not be changed at all.
Simon Alden
ANSWER
Thanks for the letter from Aaron which I am happy to respond to on behalf of the Fixtures & Events Committee.
The pennant season and where it starts and finishes is very much determined on a few key dates (remembering we are hamstrung a little by the 18 week + 2 finals season midweek). They are:
- the dates that Easter falls on,
- the dates that Christmas falls on and the need for a reasonable "gap" between the final fixture and Christmas,
- the dates post New Year and the seeking of a similar "gap"
By taking these dates into account we effectively count backwards from Easter to determine the start of the season, remembering in this case we cannot play doubleheaders midweek as we are able on the weekend.
This year working back from Easter Thursday and having the appropriate break from 21st December - 11th January (we did not believe that coming back on the 4th January was viable for clubs and their members) - the midweek season commenced on the 26th October - relatively standard for the past several years.
The one query was whether to play on the 25th January and affect 100% of the midweek players who may have wished to get away for an extended break or play on the 29th March (Easter Thursday - Grand Finals Day) which would effect 20% of the players left. The latter was chosen.
Given the fixtures are out in September, clubs are more than able to arrange for events to fill any void if they wish, in relation to the state singles we have very few remaining and in the scheme of things not an issue in relation to setting midweek fixtures.
Ken Pride
Chief Executive Officer
BOWLS WA
20th Jan 18 - As an avid listener of the bowls show I heard your idea in regards to the city zones.
Firstly I think this is a great idea.
Being from Tasmania, and now bowling in Queensland I have been fortunate enough to represent my district (zone) on a number of occasions. If you aren’t fortunate enough to represent your state, district representation gives you something else to strive for.
In QLD we also have district side championships, which gives district representatives a chance to play off against other districts and strive for a state district championship. There is also district single, pairs and fours events which are all open entry, which gives players another chance for competitive bowls.
I can only see positives happening from this idea and I hope Bowls WA gets on board.
I will be moving over to WA mid year and am very keen to experience the bowls scene over there, and I hope by the time I arrive your idea is up and running.
Keep up the good work mate.
Regards,
Tristan Bakes
Thanks Tristan, thanks for reading my site from so far away and listening to the Bowls show, we will make you feel very welcome when you move over here whatever club you bowl at. The city zones has certainly got people talking, a lot of people have just talked to me about it verbally and see the benefits as well.
What you say about district singles, pairs and fours could also work. Our climate here means we can nearly bowl all year round and having these sort of "prestigious" events in the Winter when bowls is not so crammed with activity is something else I think we could introduce. Baby steps, let's get the city zones up and working and we can expand from there.
Simon Alden
Great concept, definitely can see the benefits, its about time we had some change and im sure the majority of players would be in favour of such a system.. Having personally played in the country Zone side it is the one event that everybody involved looked forward to and the standard of bowls played was always at a high level. Can only see benefits into helping the state side being a stronger unit..
Shane Loftus
As a country club,league, zone and allstar bowler over many years I have to agree with you. The competition to get into each next level is intense and creates great focus . Generally current form rules so the hothouse pressure brings out the best in all. This is the exact process that our new state pairs champs , Arron and Nathan Smith from York learnt to handle the big time. It would also as you point out bring a lot more quality bowlers into the melting pot.
Bill Fraser
Love the idea for city zone and rep game , as a country player it's another step up . It's a another game and opportunity to show case yourself . I've represented at league round robin , zone and been lucky enough to represent in the country Allstars . Yeh it was only once but it's something to strive for apart from state championships , countryweek championships and club championships .anything that gives you an opportunity to play up a skill level and achieve or strive to achieve is going to be good for our game.
Just a country bowlers opinion
Wayne Rayner
I think this is a great idea and I'm sure it would have a positive outcome. Maybe post this idea with a few other bowls pages or send expressions of interest flyers to clubs to get the bowling clubs involved... and in turn bowls WA . The possibility of being selected in prestigious events without leaving the club you love is a huge positive. I look forward to this actually eventuating and one day be a part of. Great idea once again
Phillip Park
Thanks Phil and others. I've had a lot of positive feedback about the idea. I have sent a copy of it to Bowls WA who will discuss at a BMC meeting, so not much more to be done. We need the support of Bowls WA, because if we don't use this idea as a vehicle for state selection and thus lose the practice games, our elite players won't be in favour of more games to their calendar. Clubs and players can have input but it's really in the admin hands from here.
Simon Alden
In Scotland had two great district competitions that were for many clubs the highlight of each year.
A top 10 which consisted of best single,pair,triple and four players/team from each club in their district playing knock out every Friday evening against someone in the same district (this format could change each week depending on players display) In the case of a draw result of single player game decides who goes through.
The winner of each district playing to see who had best district in a district knock out.
The same format in a singles competition as well.
This allowed good players who stuck by their local club a chance to shine and stopped as much movement creating super strong clubs and keeping small clubs small.
Great compo and great practice Friday nights in meaningful games.
Jimmy Buchanan
Hi Bowlers , I've played in the last few state events and I'm a little disappointed in the lunches provided by the clubs . As I'm a cafe deli owner in the country I get that it costs money to supply lunches . I'd rather pay $8/$9.50 for a decent roll or $20 for a plate of lunch . The $5 sandwwhiches and rolls I've got lately were less then impressive .
If the clubs don't want to supply a lunch wouldn't it be better to advise the players then serve up what they have been .
Yeh I'm a fat bloke that's likes a feed
Wayne Rayner
If "Open" events are now "Any Gender Festive" (Yokine 23.12.17 event), then how can "mixed" events exist? Eg north beach in January.
Dion Smith
ANSWER
My understanding would be that open gender means you can have 4 men, 4 women or a mixture of both whereas a mixed event must contain equally both men and women.
If anyone has a different view please let me know.
1. Is there a heat rule for Synthetic surface given that vary from air temperature i.e 31 - 45 on surface
2. Is there a legal dumping distance
3. Has any other league changed number of games in a season from 18 to 23 to 14 in consecutive years?
Peter Anderson
Not sure I can answer any of these questions for you Peter, perhaps some of our readers might be able to help? Not sure what league you play in either Peter to go from so many rounds, it does appear unusual but all dependent on the amount of teams playing I suppose.
Simon Alden
ANSWER
1. The temperature issue was one that is one for the League as his Controlling Body & that the Metro area had sometime back sought advice from somewhere (Sports Health body + some consensus?) to arrive at the Metro regional acclimatised temperature limits of 37°C for the Women and 40°C for the Men. That these limits may vary for Country Leagues due some acclimatisation factors and whether the Leagues even applied them and that BWA has little if any control over the Leagues CoPs. I further explained BWA, this year, is collecting data using the WBGT (Wet Bulb Globe Temperature) meters in the Metro area with a view to possibly applying them in place of temperature alone in future. I emphasised that the current trial is just that and the results are to be reviewed after the end of the season. Incidentally, as I believe I may have already mentioned, Merriwa Raafa BC last season bought their own WBGT meter identical to the 5 we bought and have joined the current recording to add to the end of season analysis.
2. I explained to Peter that there is a summary of the ‘Damaging the Green’ forums on BWA website and that if he got his club or mate to download that, he would find the Metro rule which may or may not coincide with that of his League. I explained that there is no compulsion for Leagues to lodge their annual Conditions of Play (or Byelaws as some call them) with BWA, so I haven’t a clue as to what they actually contain.
3. Why the variation in the number of rounds ~ Simon Alden seems to have already answered that question of Peter’s – that it might simply be the wider than anticipated variation in annual numbers of teams nominated? When I put that to Peter on the phone he said some thing to the effect “ah, yeah – there were added teams so OK”. He had not, as yet, gone back to the website to see Simon’s comments.
I reminded Peter that he should seek the involvement of club & League committees to improve communication with their members and that Leagues and Club officials should make themselves aware of the resources on the BWA website. I also confirmed I am happy to respond to genuine queries from identified persons and/or refer questions to the Umpires Committee or BA if I am unable to provide the appropriate answers.
Cheers & Merry Christmas and a Safe & Happy New Year
Mike Garratt
Just a small point re the pennant changes being implemented for the coming season, assuming the motion is defeated at the AGM. The following is an extract from the survey taken in 2014:-
"For a change to a pennant competition to be introduced it will require a 60% agreement from submitted answers. Anything less than 60% but greater than 50% will require the Bowls WA Fixtures and Events Sub Committee to further investigate the submission and for it to be considered at a later date."
Assuming you remember the results, neither the 60% nor 50% criteria were met as per the results of the survey, so in effect Bowls WA have gone against a commitment made to bowlers. That in itself should rule out ANY changes..